How Defined does a 35r 2 rotor!!
11-15-10, 11:02 PM
#26
11-15-10, 11:22 PM
#27
The dyno chart does not even hit 500 on the link you posted, only 496? Also they are using water/alcohol injection, Im just on pump 93. They are not using the same turbo either, they have a 1.15 turbine. My turbine is a 1.00. So it's not even the same, and I make more power anyway based off the chart Im looking at. I don't think Im missing anything, but I could be it's late.
11-15-10, 11:38 PM
#28
The only thing I can use to describe how the car feels, it this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNx...x=0&playnext=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNx...x=0&playnext=1
thewird
11-15-10, 11:46 PM
#29
The dyno chart does not even hit 500 on the link you posted, only 496? Also they are using water/alcohol injection, Im just on pump 93. They are not using the same turbo either, they have a 1.15 turbine. My turbine is a 1.00. So it's not even the same, and I make more power anyway based off the chart Im looking at. I don't think Im missing anything, but I could be it's late.
11-19-10, 12:16 PM
#32
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Ok I watched the vid. Either way it was 565 not 585, and like stated earlier he is using a 1.15 turbine. He also has water/alcohol injection, this is a huge difference. This would be like me putting a 150 shot on my set-up, and missing that minor detail of how I made 680 with a 35r?
Anyways, your car is very nice and no one is trying to take away from it, if you feel you have something to prove put some race gas in it or AI and crank up the boost
11-19-10, 08:11 PM
#34
Hmm, water/alcohol is nothing like nitrous, at all. Alcohol/water reduce detonation, nitrous introduces oxygen. Also, the difference between 1.00 A/R and 1.15 A/R is not that big at all, and the fact that you're half-bridged vs. the other's streetport...
Anyways, your car is very nice and no one is trying to take away from it, if you feel you have something to prove put some race gas in it or AI and crank up the boost
Anyways, your car is very nice and no one is trying to take away from it, if you feel you have something to prove put some race gas in it or AI and crank up the boost
. I was pointing out absurdity by using absurdity my self. Look it's simple Im on pump gas, using 14-16 psi, hardly the same thing as an engine running a/i injection. I simply pointed out that the person trying to say my set-up was the same as that FC is not even close. I did however make the claim that my engine has the highest documented power using a 35r on pump gas. Im really just advertising for Defined Autoworks. I think credit should be given where credit is due, and Defined deserves some with this build. I really am not trying to step on any one or start a measuring contest. If some one posts a chart proving me wrong, then great you deserve credit. The chart posted claiming 585 was not even close to my set-up, ai is a big difference from just pump gas. I am also not trying to take away from the posted FC's achievement, I just want to point out that bigturbo74 was comparing apples to oranges. P.S. ai injection is coming very, very soon with charts.
11-19-10, 08:18 PM
#36
Agreed, but I am highly confused about this. I've never ran a Gt35R on a rotary "as-is" because its a non-divided t3 turbine. Pretty much everyone converts it to a t4 with p-trim wheel. The 1.00 divided t4 turbine and p-trim wheel is cheaper than the wheel it comes with. So why even bring this up when discussing what is possible with a 35R on a rotary? Who would use the T3 turbine and wheel? Why? All the T04R's To4s's To4e's Gt30's gt40's under a typical rotary hood is going to have a .96-1.15 turbine and p-trim wheel. How would using this wheel discount 523rwhp at 14psi? Its more common than a chevy 350.
You would be surprised how many people use the T3 hot side on rotaries.
11-19-10, 10:24 PM
#38
Agreed, but I am highly confused about this. I've never ran a Gt35R on a rotary "as-is" because its a non-divided t3 turbine. Pretty much everyone converts it to a t4 with p-trim wheel. The 1.00 divided t4 turbine and p-trim wheel is cheaper than the wheel it comes with. So why even bring this up when discussing what is possible with a 35R on a rotary? Who would use the T3 turbine and wheel? Why? All the T04R's To4s's To4e's Gt30's gt40's under a typical rotary hood is going to have a .96-1.15 turbine and p-trim wheel. How would using this wheel discount 523rwhp at 14psi? Its more common than a chevy 350.
I'm not going to take credit for things by saying I was the first this or that, what I will say was back in 01 before there were T4 housing on 35R's I sold way too many turbo kits for rotaries on the T3 frame, it works and does well. It's biggest limit is that it being a T3 means if you build for it you're stuck with a T3 manifold. Power wise though people have made upper 400's on the T3 with good response.
Back when we developed T4 housings for 35R's no-one had them, I had very large well known shops calling us and emailing looking to buy our .84, 1.0, and 1.15's all on the 68mm 35R turbine wheel. I waited over a year for one of the largest Garret Performance warehouses to get my castings made (T4 1.06) and finally found a way to make the normal Garrett housings fit instead. Shortly after our housings were cast and I didn't really need them as much anymore. Point to all that is there are actual T4 35R's.
As far as running a 35R comp with a P-trim wheel. I don't know who was doing that first, like I said I wont lay claim simply because people in general will come to a similar conclusion, but when I came out with the GT3574 (I believe in 05) it was a direct result of the fact that I had boxes of 35R compressor wheels sitting here left over from all the 500R's we were making. It seemed like a natural conclusion to fit them on P-trim wheels in .84 housings and offer them as a good alternative for those who didn't want to pay for a BB turbo and were always asking do they make a non BB 35R. I certainly didn't call it a 35R just because it ran a 35R compressor wheel.
A 35R is a GT3582R it comes in T3 and now garrett has offered the T4's (1.06) outright for 2010. What you have been buying, selling, building, using etc. is whatever you choose to call it, but you can't call up Garrett and tell them you want a 35R with a P-trim wheel. If you could it will have a different part number.
All that being said, the point about all those turbo's running P-trims doesn't hold water. They are hybrids not off the shelf turbo's. If I put a 35R comp on a TO4Z turbine which is it? Your "35R" or a new fancy quicker spooling 61mm TO4Z?
Think about it this way you know if I line up next you at the strip and we both say we have 62/62's and then I win and you find out my 62/62 suddenly was actually a 62/65 you wouldn't be calling it a 62/62 anymore and I would be called disingenuous at best. Same goes for dyno numbers.
The HP figure is nice, 523whp at roughly 17psi on essentially 20B Half bridge port work, with a 1.0 P-trim is certainly good numbers. On the same turbo on a completely stock block 50k mile T2 we saw 423whp at 14psi. I've had customers with 470whp@17psi with mild street ported REW's so your numbers are certainly within reason, no-one is doubting them.
Like I said before I love the car, and the build, I think it's a great setup, and well executed, I'd certainly be proud to own it.
~S~
Last edited by Zero R; 11-19-10 at 10:29 PM.
11-20-10, 05:19 PM
#40
I'm not going to take credit for things by saying I was the first this or that, what I will say was back in 01 before there were T4 housing on 35R's I sold way too many turbo kits for rotaries on the T3 frame, it works and does well. It's biggest limit is that it being a T3 means if you build for it you're stuck with a T3 manifold. Power wise though people have made upper 400's on the T3 with good response.
Back when we developed T4 housings for 35R's no-one had them, I had very large well known shops calling us and emailing looking to buy our .84, 1.0, and 1.15's all on the 68mm 35R turbine wheel.
~S~
Back when we developed T4 housings for 35R's no-one had them, I had very large well known shops calling us and emailing looking to buy our .84, 1.0, and 1.15's all on the 68mm 35R turbine wheel.
~S~
11-20-10, 05:52 PM
#41
I'm not knocking anything you have done, I think it's awesome however think about this, if a kid came into my shop or another shop that is very familiar with rotary turbo's and said This place made 523whp on a "regular old 35R" Me or any other shop would laugh and say either the shop is full of it or the kid is. It does you a disservice to call it a plain old 35R. The car itself however says a lot to how good your work is.
~S~
~S~
11-23-10, 11:47 PM
#43
Went back to the dyno one more time on pump gas to see what slightly higher boost would effect. Still under 20psi. About 18.8psi peak going to 16 psi redline. Definitely stretching the fuel system to the upper limits. 535rwhp / 406rwtq. The methanol system is almost finished now, so that will be the next very soon!
Last edited by GtoRx7.; 11-23-10 at 11:50 PM.
01-02-11, 08:07 PM
#44
Went back to the dyno one more time on pump gas to see what slightly higher boost would effect. Still under 20psi. About 18.8psi peak going to 16 psi redline. Definitely stretching the fuel system to the upper limits. 535rwhp / 406rwtq. The methanol system is almost finished now, so that will be the next very soon!
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