artguy

hey guys...

quick questions...

Im going to go in and tune for high boost on my m2 twins...Im talking about 20lbs of boost...

I will be purchasing a 3 bar map sensor and the upgraded ignition.

will the manual boost controller be sufficient to control boost?? right now i run the pfc but Im not sure it will control boost..I think it only controls to 17lbs correct?

at what point does boost blow out the spark?? 17lbs?? what is the max boost on stock igntion etc...

my mod list is on my sig...Im very close to what i need to run those kinds of boost numbers. any input is GREATLY appreciated guys...Im in uncharted territory for my car.

I built that motor from the inside out and it is strong with good compression...everything that could have been replaced was including all wiring and sensors.

is there anything else i need?? at all??

the car when done should dyno 400 rwhp when it is done right.

let me know what you think...

j

artguy

i cant believe nobody knows what point of boost will blow out the spark....

j

soul assassin

theres more to it than just boost that will blow the spark out. stock FD ignition is good for 500hp no problem. question is will those m2 boost effciently at 20psi? do you have enuff gas? you will have enuff spark for 400 but if it doesn't get there or it blows you have other problems

artguy

I run 1300cc injectors...a nippondenso pump good for 550hp...

the m2s were built to handle 16-20lbs...they are garrett gt30 balllistics inside those housings...the builder that m2 gets them from claims they are good for more than that....however I think the 16-20 is pushing it enough.

my motor was built to handle that boost level...i have the ecu..the injs...the pump...the fpr...everything else i need to do it.

the only thing left on the list is another oil cooler and ignition....and a 3bar map sensor.

high boost will blow out the spark...sure the stock ignition is good for 500hp but at what boost levels are thos numbers achieved?

what else am i not considering

j

soul assassin

your ignition will be fine till 1.8-2.0

artguy

thanks...well its time to go for the ignition then

Im thinking to go with the hks...

any word on which is the preferred unit?

the jacobs according to spyfish will burn out the stock coils...

any others?

thanks for the input soul assassin

j

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

you should be fine with the HKS, you may want to run some race plugs if you plan on going to 20 psi.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I went from the Ignitions Solution Plasma Booster (which supposedly operates like the HKS for half the price) to the Jacobs and felt a noticeable difference on the ol' butt dyno above 5000 rpm. I did put down that 368 to the ground with the Ign Sol box, but wanted to try something different--also the Jacobs is warrantied for life; a friend had a 3 yr old unit fail on him and he got a brand new unit w/no hassles.

Chris at RP said I should be fine w/the stock coil b/c mine is almost brand new. I was also told by RP's former engine builder that the stock FD coil is almost as good as a 'race coil,' so upgrading wasn't necessary. Perhaps Carson's failed b/c of it's age.

Of course, take all of the above with a grain of salt b/c I'm speculating.

I would definitely run race plugs, NGK 10.5 Leading and 11.5 Trailing. RP sells them for $29 each, and at that boost level they're definitely worth it.

artguy

Im running the 10.5s now...thanks for the input.

Im gonna dig around for some ignition stuff...if i find anything good Ill post it.

anyhow..the advice is appreciated

j

Brad

I think you may have fuel problems. Couple months ago I watched a friends T04S be dyno tuned. Short and skinny...he ran 850x1600 and a HUGE bosch pump and barely had enough fuel at 20 psi and about 420 rwhp.

I don't think the 1300cc will cut it, and I hope to god you don't have the RP NipponDenso unit and think it's good for 550 hp, cause it's not.

Good luck.

AJC13B

I am making 500+ to the back wheels with stock T2 coils. No boosters, no CDI, nothing. That was on 26psi.

Don't waste your money.

artguy

now that my new friend is very interesting

why would dave at kdr tell me to upgrade my ignition when i mentioned the possibility of high boost blowing out the spark...he seemed to think it would possibly blow it after 18lbs.

what do you think?

but if you are running that kind of boost and making times like that HOLY ****...Ill take your word for it.


gotboostd...the setup I have is the setup that m2 specifically suggested I go with back when I built my motor. There are others here running close to 400 on the 1200-1300s am i right?...and those guys are on stock primaries...

if your pal is using 1600s and enlarged primaries as well and the bosch pump how is he in need of fuel at 420 hp when there are guys running way more power than that using those injectors and a similar pump??

maybe Im crazy...am I missing something?

what setup are the boys around here with 400 hp running??????


thanks again

j

right now i can add fuel til its so rich it barely drives and that is at 14lbs...I am asking these questions so i go to the dyno prepared...if it wont work i will find out as i dyno tune the car...if i have to do larger inj or a diff pump then so be it.

I will run 20lbs and i will hit 400hp to the wheels...Ill do my best to make sure all the bases are covered...your input is appreciated.

Brad

I was just sharing my experiences, not saying you will or won't encounter the same. My friend wasn't in need of fuel, but his setup wouldn't support much more. He pumped out a max of 461 rwhp @ 20 psi, but the AFR was pushing 12.1 and fuel pressure dropped after about 6000 rpm.

Using the fuel calculator on Max Cooper's website...assuming a BSFC of .62, base fuel pressure of 40 psi, and an injector duty cycle of 85%, your 550cc x 1300cc injectors will support a maximum of 394 rwhp. In addition to that, running 20 psi boost you will need a fuel pump which flows 180 lph @ 75 psi. I don't think the RP Nippon unit can pull that off. Now you might start off with a lower base fuel pressure, like my friend did. His base fuel pressure was 30 psi. Using Max's calculator his setup should be (and it was) good for 424 rwhp (he only had his injectors pumping away at 80% duty cycle). Seems to me that Max's calculator is fairly accurate.

If M2 recommends the 1300cc and the Nippon pump then go with that.

I too would like to know how many people on here are safely making 400 rwhp with 550x1200-1300 injectors and the Nippon (20B) pump.

BTW, about the ignition thing...once again, my lil friend (damn, when am I going to be able to share experiences with my OWN car ) was tuned at 20 psi and had absolutely zero ignition probs. Only mod he has to ignition is Twin Power, but everyone there seemed to think it didn't help ****.

AJC13B

artguy - Its up to you mate. Go to Dave and ask him. Check my site for all the details www.ajc13b.com

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

the TeamFC3S denso pump will flow
230 @ 70psi with 13.5 volts
210 @ 70psi with 12 volts

that as running 26psi of turbo boost

artguy

great info guys....

I did some runs tonight to see what my injectors were pushing...78 percent at 15lbs...so it looks as if you are correct...Ill need more fuel. Granted Im running very rich at points...

I plugged in maps from kdr as well...they were waaaaay too lean and it felt like fuel cut even though I couldnt have been boosting more than five lbs...i put my maps back in and it pulls through the entire power band...though my maps were done by me with my seat dyno and the commander...Im at a loss...Im on two shops now and no luck with their maps. Im thinking my last option with this ecu is to drive up to ray at sr and leave it with him and the dough to do it right.

Im going to check into what fuel mods will need to be done...will get a better boost controller and an additional oil cooler...will get the ignition last...will also get the 3bar map sensor. am i missing anything?

the hardest part is still finding a dyno tuner to tune my power fc with these mods...even if im only boosting 14-16lbs on these turbos.

Im sleepy...probably forgetting some things...any other input is appreciated.

this is all a learning experience...that is for sure.


j

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

My 368 to the wheels was made w/the above fuel mods at high 70 %'s Inj Duty. Of course, that's tuned rich as ****.

I hope 'ol Rikki Tikki Tavi is watching this so he'll stop accusing me of not helping people

93 R1

Gotboosted7:

Who made 460+ rwhp on a T04S? I'd like to talk with him about his setup. I have a T04S and am looking for some pointers.

AJC13B

My fuel system. Injectors are 2 x 720cc and 2 x 1650cc. Base fuel pressure is 45psi. Plugs are BUR9EQ lead and trail.

Brad

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=82872

Like I said though, the 461 rwhp was NOT in the safe zone. AFR was around 12.1ish and fuel pressure wasn't holding up.

The final tune ended up at 419 rwhp @ 18 psi, 11.5 AFR.

On a mustang dyno too.

Cmon now Rich...368 isn't 400 And I wouldn't call 11.2 rich as ****. Alot of people think 11.2 is the accepted safe zone .

artguy

so its looking like i need an aic and more injectors...as well as the other things on my list.

Im going to pass on the ignition for now and get the j&s knock snsr. seems smarter for now...Ill go safety first...but dammit Im itching to get this thing tuned...Im so close...new motor...new turbos...new everything...why cant i find a damn tuner>??


j

Brad

No no no! Dood, don't do the J&S...for crissakes spend the $600 on water injection or C16! IT'S NOT WORTH THE MONEY! What's the point of spending $600 on a computer that tells you that you got a bad tank of gas or bad tuning!?!?

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree, I have a J&S for sale if anyone wants one.

AJC13B

gmonsen - True, I would pick up HP if I went to CDI but it comes down to what I want from the car and what I will be doing with it. If I was contuinue to drag race or run 30psi all the time, then yes an upgrade to CDI would be warranted. But I won't be running 30psi again and as such I feel the $1000AUD is better spent elsewhere...

artguy

thanks for the input guys...I cant believe i was sold on that nippondenso...rx7.com recommended that one to me....friggen hilarious....I even told them the hp numbers and boost I would be running.

another experience washed into the "for the sake of learning only" gutter.

looks like I'll have to sell the pump etc...

j

thanks for answering the questions with great answers.