View Poll Results: So you think yer pretty fast, eh?
T04E
17
16.04%
T04S
32
30.19%
60-1
42
39.62%
62-1
15
14.15%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll
Head to head drag between T04 family...
04-26-02, 12:30 AM
#1
Looking for a S5 TII??
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Head to head drag between T04 family...
Ok.. Same car, same level of tuning, same driver, same everything. If we took a T04E, a T04S, a 60-1, and a 62-1 and tuned them each to best possible where each had 400 RWHP peak, who would win in a drag race?
A bigger turbo does not mean faster. My 400 rwhp money pit regularly gets beaten at the track by cars with much less power. Why you ask?? My dyno chart looks something like a Harrier taking off. ___| (I have yet to be beaten on the freeway by anything with 4 wheels so don't laugh...)
To find who will win in a race, it is not the power acheived but the amount of time in the power. Take the dyno charts from the cars in question. pick a low point on the scale, say, just before where the power comes on on the earliest car. Draw a horizontal line at that point on all the sheets. For each, calculate the area above that line and under the HP curve. The car that spends the most time in that area under the curve will be the fastest, all else being equal. Get it?
Let's get some FEEDBACK!
A bigger turbo does not mean faster. My 400 rwhp money pit regularly gets beaten at the track by cars with much less power. Why you ask?? My dyno chart looks something like a Harrier taking off. ___| (I have yet to be beaten on the freeway by anything with 4 wheels so don't laugh...)
To find who will win in a race, it is not the power acheived but the amount of time in the power. Take the dyno charts from the cars in question. pick a low point on the scale, say, just before where the power comes on on the earliest car. Draw a horizontal line at that point on all the sheets. For each, calculate the area above that line and under the HP curve. The car that spends the most time in that area under the curve will be the fastest, all else being equal. Get it?
Let's get some FEEDBACK!
04-26-02, 10:35 AM
#2
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The Ideal Turbo for a street Rx7 is the 60-1. I am a dealer for innovatice turbo and for Turbonetics. Innovative wont use the 62-1 wheel due to what they claim as "unreliable" "inconsistant". A good 60-1 setup will put you right in the area that you are looking for as far as hp concerns. T04E is a good turbo also but it does not really compare to the 60-1. A T series 61 uses the Tseries body with a 61mm compressor wheel and is recomended over the 62-1 from most people I talk to. And you are exactly right about the HP at optimal times. Maybe thats why them 600hp supras run 11 sec quatermile. Having 600 hp is nice, but not when you only have the hosepower for the last 500 rpms
My Vote goes to 60-1 Take care
My Vote goes to 60-1 Take care
05-01-02, 05:36 PM
#7
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Greg is 100% right, its about which turbo will provide you with the higgest average power over your gear ratios, and for 400rwhp or even up to 590bhp a 60-1 or Garrett TO4S (many different names for similar "spec" turbo) You will not have more average power over a "up to" 3800rpm range (1st to second shift/high shift point std gearbox).
Remember highest average power over your gear ratio is what accelerates the car, the larger turbos will give you a little more peak (at that pressure ratio less than 4%) but average power (which accelerates the car in a certain time) will be less.
Look at alot of power graphs for Supras, they are a joke !, nice if you have a 6 or 7 speed close ratio gearbox, without that they are just peak HP numbers machines.
Remember highest average power over your gear ratio is what accelerates the car, the larger turbos will give you a little more peak (at that pressure ratio less than 4%) but average power (which accelerates the car in a certain time) will be less.
Look at alot of power graphs for Supras, they are a joke !, nice if you have a 6 or 7 speed close ratio gearbox, without that they are just peak HP numbers machines.
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05-01-02, 06:10 PM
#8
Weird Cat Man
Ok maybe someone with some extensive turbo experience like Greg or Rice Racing can fill in here....
A "T04S" like the one that XS Eng sells is also called a "60-1"? The turbo naming conventions seem pretty darn confusing.
Thanks,
Brian
A "T04S" like the one that XS Eng sells is also called a "60-1"? The turbo naming conventions seem pretty darn confusing.
Thanks,
Brian
05-03-02, 08:02 PM
#10
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by shinjuku
and while were are on the topic of names...
is it H trim or super H trim that is the equiv of 60-1?
and while were are on the topic of names...
is it H trim or super H trim that is the equiv of 60-1?
H-trim
inducer = 2.298"
major = 2.750"
Super H-trim
inducer = 2.298"
major = 3.000"
60-1
inducer = 2.324"
major = 4.000"
Obviously, they are not the same...
-Ted
05-10-02, 12:28 PM
#13
Is that you John Wayne?
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An HKS/Garrett Japan T04S is a 60-1 blade with a convex bottom while the normal 60-1 has a slightly flatter bottom. HKS has their turbos slightly altered so you can not use Garrett USA parts. The T04R is a 62-1 blade that has been slightly altered to give better response.
05-27-03, 06:02 PM
#14
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Whoa, have you guys seen dynos for single turbo Supras??? Their area under the curve between shift points is absolutely phenominal!
http://moreboost.org/graphics/turbos/T61_TM1.jpg
http://moreboost.org/graphics/turbos/T64_QF1.gif
http://moreboost.org/graphics/turbos/T66_SO1.jpg
Plenty more too, pretty much everytime they shift, they are STILL within 50 hp of peak power and this is precisely why they trap so high. The ET will depend on the launch and traction, most owners want to drive home from the track thus they are less willing to go ***** out on the 60'.
http://moreboost.org/graphics/turbos/T61_TM1.jpg
http://moreboost.org/graphics/turbos/T64_QF1.gif
http://moreboost.org/graphics/turbos/T66_SO1.jpg
Plenty more too, pretty much everytime they shift, they are STILL within 50 hp of peak power and this is precisely why they trap so high. The ET will depend on the launch and traction, most owners want to drive home from the track thus they are less willing to go ***** out on the 60'.
Last edited by Marshall; 05-27-03 at 06:06 PM.
05-27-03, 07:23 PM
#15
Rotary Enthusiast
what numbers could you expect from a T04S with a .84 hotside, .70 coldside, with a 60-1 wheel? just wondering, cause that is what i wanna get... lets just say at 15 psi......
05-28-03, 01:04 PM
#17
Weird Cat Man
I think that a .84 is too small for that setup... but I'm not an expert so I guess it could work. I run a T04S with 1.00 hot, 0.70 cold, and I put out right around 400 rwhp at 14.5 PSI.
05-28-03, 01:23 PM
#18
in slow, out fast!
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well i wouldn't mind going a bit bigger but from what i hear the .84 is the biggest you can fit on the obx manifold in a 3rd gen without hitting the uim or the frame rail... if anyone knows different i wouldn't mind going a bit bigger. i could put a spacer in but just don't really want to, my friend has the rx6 turbo kit, so just wanted something comparable since i like the way his setup is...
05-28-03, 04:41 PM
#20
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someon please chime in as i have the obx mani and a 60-1 .70/1.15 div housing. i need to know about the clearance issue as well. i had a friend get a 3/8" sheet of stainless from work so i could make a spacer as bacon did. i didn't know anything about hitting the frame rail though. i hope this info is false :fingers crossed:
05-28-03, 05:05 PM
#21
Rotary Enthusiast
yea i don't think it will hit the frame rail.. just the uim, i think the frame rail has more to do with the compressor side... tell me though, do you think any thing bigger could fit without hitting the uim or should i just stick to my .84? i'd like ~400 hp at 15 psi... i know it might be pushing it on a .84 hotside, but i would really rather not make a spacer just cause... do you think i could manage something like a .96?
05-28-03, 08:55 PM
#23
Rotary Enthusiast
i see your point there... but i am not looking for anything super huge anyway, just a nice size street turbo, and from what i hear a T04S with a .84 hot .70 cold and a 60-1 wheel should be great for the street. don't do much drag racing, just want my car to be real fast on the street, more reliable then the stock twins with less heat... and with a wastegate that actually works!
05-28-03, 10:30 PM
#24
Mad Man
I have a .60 comp., and a .85 ptrim, it is like having a V8, no lag, instant response. However, power is modest, 300 at 15 psi 10:1 afr, conservative timing. This is on a second gen. The turbo pulls hard through 25 psi, which is what I now run, But I have not dyno'd at that boost. You need a little larger hot side to see 400rwhp IMHO. Carl Byck
BTW Rice, Greg, you both know that you are FOS RE the Supras
You know what I am talking about.
BTW Rice, Greg, you both know that you are FOS RE the Supras
You know what I am talking about.
05-30-03, 12:12 PM
#25
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A buddy of mine dyno'd 390hp at around 15psi with the T04s 60-1. .70 cold, .81 non-divided hot. STOCK ports. I was there. He's now sporting a ported engine and it made 370rwhp at 6k rpms before he had to shut down for a problem. He was well on his way over the 400rhwp mark.
I bought the same turbo with a .84 divided and a street ported engine. I expect to make at or near 400rwhp myself. True the bigger A/R should make more peak hp but that brings us back to the 'ol power under the curve and how you drive it issue.
My .02.
I bought the same turbo with a .84 divided and a street ported engine. I expect to make at or near 400rwhp myself. True the bigger A/R should make more peak hp but that brings us back to the 'ol power under the curve and how you drive it issue.
My .02.