dhahlen

iTrader: (5)

HAHAHA

Mr. Stock

You did not understand my point.
The point is not whether aluminum tubing can withstand 250 psi or not.
It has to do with the brittle nature of aluminum.
Have you ever bent aluminum back and forth? It becomes brittle(fatigue) and then it cracks.
Think of the aluminum fuel lines as it is anchored at the fittings. The line may vibrate with and cause fatigue where it joins the fittings. It can then rupture. Fuel start leaking. A lovely BBQ may result.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I understand the point, my point is the people who make aluminum line for use in a fuel system don't specify whether its good for carbs only or not. They list an astronmical pressure which covers the majority of all FI applications and thats it.

AN fittings are aluminum. Are we worried about these becoming workhardened?

DelSlow

iTrader: (2)

I seriously doubt there will be enough load placed on them for fatigue failure to be an issue, integrate a pulsation dampner if your worried about it.

willub and company

iTrader: (3)

I would be skeptical too of the lines cracking. especially the way that the regulator is anchored to the intake manifold. iirc on my old fd the intake manifolds had a lot of vibration at idle.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

No, because typically fuel lines use rubber hose or braided lines. These lines give; thus deducing the effect of pulsing. This provides relief for the fittings.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I suppose that yes there's relief from external vibration due to the rubber line, but the point I'm contesting is the fuel injection and associated pressure being the culprit.

Either way though I highly doubt there would be a failure even if you solid mounted that engine with aluminum blocks. Were not talking about alot of give here. The fact that the rest of the fuel system is ridgidly mounted to the engine should make it less likely to be fatigued by engine movement because its moving with the engine. The engine isn't flexing it between two points like if for example you attached part of it the car and part of it to the engine.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

I see where youre coming from, but have you ever grabbed a fuel line that is pulsing? They are pretty strong pulses... not only that, they pulse at a completely different pace than what the engine vibrates at.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I know its under some pressure. But I can't see it being too detrimental otherwise I'm quite sure there'd be explicit warnings against it. Given the fact that the product specifies a pressure maximum, and we're well under it (less then half), I'd consider it safe.

I see the point though, and this is just my opinion.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

gottcha. I assume there would be a warning if it was dangerous...

but then again, a turbo doesn't come with a warning about pushing 25 lbs on a stock ecu.

I have no experience with the hardline system, so I'm just thinking through it as logically as I can.

I see your point as well...

calculon

iTrader: (29)

If you're real worried about it, and still want hardlines, use SS.

DelSlow

iTrader: (2)

Thats what the pulsation dampner takes care of. Flexable membrane that absorbs the pulses. $150 from Marren.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

i understand what a dampener does, but it's doesnt take care of all pulsation. the best thing you can do for pulation, is rubber lines.

RETed

Russells explicitly states "carburation", but it does not mention "fuel injection".
I guess if you can accept omission as a warning, that's about as good as it gets.
I'm sure Russells has some kinda tech hotline that you can call?

Also, maximum pressure rating has nothing to do with the work-hardening problem.
Work-hardening will turn the aluminum very brittle.
As already mentioned, we're talking about a very harsh environment which includes NVH.
We're more worried about the vibration part of the NVH the most.


-Ted

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

forgive my ignorance, but... NVH?

scathcart

"Noise, Vibration and Harshness" as experienced by those within the vehicle, and to those outside the vehicle.

The term NVH generally refers to the level of human comfort, and not to engine vibration.

RETed

Hmmm...always thought of it as "Noise Vibration Heat"?

Ack, nevermind...

http://www.nvhmaterials.com/nvhinfo.htm



-Ted

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Well, the way I see it is,

Are we all worried about our aluminum hose ends and adapters hardening and cracking after being subjected to the vibrations of being whipped by long lengths of SS hose continuously?

No.

So, why are we worried about a 2-4" length of anealed aluminum securely swaged to fittings secured to the engine hardening and splitting?

Stainless tube is not an option with aluminum swage fittings as the tube material cannot be harder than the ferrules and properly swage. As far as harder swage fittings SS=$$.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Actually, those 2ndary fuel rail brackets look really cheesy and should be beefed up...

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

I really like the look of those lines. I searched all over and cannot find anything, even in the NHRA tech manual that says you cannot use it. Just asking around everyone I talked do not like the idea. I was at a local speed shop picking up some AN fittings and asked them their thoughts, they also did not like the idea but had no valid reasons when I explained the 250PSI working pressure.

I understand what you are saying, if it can handle the pressure (which it does) and as long as there is NO movement (which there is none) it should fine. If you have to remove the lines for any reason, how easy do they come off? Is there any flexing involved? I will ask the NHRA guys the next time I am at the track and see what they say.

Here's some more info below and the link where it came from...

The main issue when dealing with aluminum tubing (or any aluminum for that matter) is that it “work hardens” when it flexes, which can lead to cracks. It is important that the hard line is isolated from vibration and movement.

Clamp the tubing securely with rubber coated clamps (Adel clamps) and use bulkhead fittings where the tubing attaches to the flex line. Never run the tubing directly to the engine without a flexible hose section. If installed properly, aluminum tubing is safe and durable.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1633...Fuel-Line.html

Anthony

Uncle Hungry

iTrader: (2)

Re inventing the wheel imo.

ivegonemad

looks clean but...

ivegonemad

i havent recieved an answer for my question but is this strictly for FD's?? am i able to use it with an RE in a fc?? I sent ben an email but havent got nothing...

Komodo1982

iTrader: (4)

guys im looking into using hard lines for my turbo plumbing. the lines im looking for need to be -4 and -6 so i can flare them to 37 degrees to use with -AN fittings. Russel performance only lists SAE lines... Where did you guys get the _AN hard line for the fuel setup?

OTT

iTrader: (1)

+1 for hard line. If your worried about work-hardening just use the ss hard line.