...

the pickup was clean tho, except for the part on the end. it was configured wrong so it was thinking the RPM was double what it was, hence the reason for half the torque. i bet if they set rpm on the bottom, it would read up to 16000.

 

Hey Dave,
no this is a mild street ported engine from my understanding. the tuning was also very conservative from what i heard with the a/f in the mid 10's and timing in the 13 degrees..... You'll have to ask judge Ito or chris to know more about the tuning. I only heard about the dyno #'s after it was done.


as for the 1/2 bridge car, he just picked it up last week and will need some break-in period before I can tune it. He did however gotten an average of 24mpg on the way back to OK city.

 

Hardly contradicting himself Steve, read it again.

1) Dynojet stated they didn't feel the 720 degree setting would not cut torque in half.
2) The torque could be off if there was noise in the tach pickup.


Two different points on the same topic. It can be a little confusing I know, hell I get confused all the time.

 

Sean,
I know what he was saying and what dynojet was saying. It's the fact that anyone who knows anything about rotaries should know not to set it to 720 degree. It is either 360 or 180 depending upon where the pick up is (leading or trailing). I stated on my first reply that it was set wrong causing the torque to be 1/2 of the actual #. Also, noise would not cause the torque to be 1/2 either, it would just not pick up the rpm causing it to read hp ONLY since dynojet can not interpolate two different hp #'s at the same rpm (noise) and will ignore the signal all together. That's why sometimes, you'll see a skip in the torque curve because the signal was interrupted by noises.

In the case of Crispy, it was obvious that it was set to the wrong setting causing the torque to be 1/2.

 

I don't think any one was stating noise would cause torque to be halved. Just that it could be off. I have had cars here where when there is too much noise we would get hp only readings as you stated. I got tired of messing around with it(not getting clean readings.) So I just got the optical.

From my perspective(outside looking in) it seems you trying to make things sound like more than they should that's all I'm saying. Nowhere did anyone contradict themselves. Nowhere did anyone say a noisy signal would double or halve your readings, only make them inaccurate. By the way your making it out to be. I would be throwing a "Well then whoever tuned crispys rotary must not know anything about rotaries since they set the dyno to 720." We both know that not to be the case

 

I never said that it was set to 720 nor did I said that was what they did. I said *I think it was set to 720* which could cause it to throw the torque off. He could have easily set it to 360 and measure the rpm at the trailing resulting the same torque curve as shown on his chart. Besides, I wasn't the one that brought up the noise causing the torque curve drop in half anyways. as a matter of fact, I never said it was noise introducing the error to begin with.


Also, what exactly are you refering to *things* that I'm making to sound like more than it should? The fact that the torque curve is 1/2 of the actual torque or the fact that someone claimed to be very experienced with the dynojet?

 

guys, we all know richy rich farrell has the bigger *****

 

DAMN! This thread blew up. Sorry for the delay in info but I have been drinking heavily and then worthless the following day(Goodfella knows how I get). Anyway, I don't know how to make multiple quotes in a post nor do I want to get on some "postwhore" tip.

Moehler- Thank you. Torque is low because the dyno was not on the proper setting. There was an 18 and 36 setting and it got set @ 36 because the tach on the computer was reading low on the 18 setting, but was correct on the 36 setting. I think that nyt is right on.

LUPE- 439 was @ 17-18 psi and 417 was @ 13-14 psi

Fastrotaries- 94 octane pump gas

Poweraxel- I will either be doing another run, or getting retuned in the near future just to clear up any confusion. (mine and other's)

Carl Byck- Not sure of the elevation, but I wasnt in the mountains nor at sea level. Maybe I will do a search on Lodi,NJ to get an answer.

Pluto- The car was not tuned by Judge Ito. He was there however.

Scrub- Thanks for the kind words, and if you do purchase a kit you may want to look into having the wastegate(s) plumbed back into your downpipe. If not, then check the clearances of the dumptubes with other parts of the car. (crossmember, etc.)

Rx-Heaven- If the video clip you saw was sent to Drunken Gimp, it was probably my car which is only a mild streetport.

 

By the way the afr's were in the low to mid 10's, and just for information sake (I'm not making any excuses) my car was street tuned/idling/street tuned then driven to and backed up right onto the dyno on a typical Jersey summer day. The intake temps were close to 130 degrees.

Here's my recipe:
rebuilt engine (all mazda oem) w/ a mild streetport
GR67 turbo kit
Turbo XS dual stage boost controller
Greddy 2 row front mount
Fluidyne radiator
Gotham stage 3 fuel system
Aeromotive fuel pressure reg.
two Nippondenso fuel pumps
MSD dis-2
MSD 6a
Ngk bur9eq plugs
Haltech e6x
ACT clutch
Rx7 store resonated midpipe
KG parts differential brace
Greddy titanium exhaust

there is some other stuff, but I dont think its relevant (short shifter,cross drilled rotors,relocated battery)

 

Isn't symantics fun!!! No need to be sooo pissy Steve. We could go around all day here, no-one said noise would cause the torque curve to drop in half, please show me where they did, I'll be waiting. As for it being brought up it was brought up as a possibilty to the reason torque readings could be off. Nowhere did anyone say you brought it up so relaxxxx just a little. Nor did they say this is what's wrong with THIS sheet.

Things are the little comments you like to throw out to get a bite on then jump in another direction when someone with half a brain answers you head on. Example saying someone here is contradicting themselves to get the arguement. When shown they weren't and it was a simple misque between you two; switch gears and go to "claimed to be experienced with a dynojet." What purpose did the remark serve? Do you feel better now? I say we both just walk away at this point cause your obviously riled up for some reason, and me, I got shop stuff to get done.

Cripsr6, decent numbers goodluck !!!

 

Listen ive ran cars at 720 with normal torque curves. if you want to tell customers to double the torque than thats fine. Maybe i should too! sweet!

 

Are we still talking about rotaries or piston? I seriously doubt that you can get the correct torque curve in a rotary running at 720

 

You guys crack me up.

Cripsr6, good numbers. Drive safe! You said that Judge Ito was there but didn't tune the car... Then who did and why not the Judge? Just curious.

Zach

 

Sean, I'm nowhere near in the pissy mood. As a matter of fact, I wasn't the one that started the whole thing from the beginning. Last time I checked, this is still a rotary forum. Unless somehow poweraxel logged into a different forum and thinks that this is a SR20 or 4G63 forum, I dont even see how the 720 (#) could even come to play and be argued about. 720 doesn't work either way you slice the pie in a rotary. For a person to claimed to be very experienced in dynojet and works on rotaries daily to even argue that by putting the trigger pickup at 720 would not affect the torque is contradicting to me wouldn't you think? I don't even see the point of quoting something from dynojet that the rpm pickup is accurate (when configured properly for the engine trigger).

Like you said, even a half the brain can figure it out. Obviously NYT has more than half the brian since he picked up what was going on from the beginning.

 

simply put if the tach pickup is in sych with the car theres no reason to double it. i have dynoed rotaries at 720 with normal torque readings but since you insist ill add the "kan" equation to double the torque readings even though the tach is in sych with 720. i think you should train dynojet on there equipment.
this thread is getting rather boring and i have said what i had to say numerous times.. you win, im tired i need to grow another half of a brain, damn..
... now only if Crisp could show his dyno against RPM....

 

Thank you very much. In no way did I intend this thread to be so controversial., nor did I mean to raise any hostility between you and Steve.

The fella who built my motor and did a good portion of the work to it tuned me. I do not know Ito like that. As a matter of fact I met him for the first time the day I dynoed.


Hey, can I just get a new printout without making anymore pulls? If so I may head back to the shop this weekend if its that simple.

 

Crisps...I am probably going to go with the dual wastegate setup, and unfortunatley you are not able to route it back to the DP. I have a T-66 right now with an HKS manifold and wastegate plumbed back to the DP so I have no clue how loud it will be with opened wastegates. I'm not totally set on which route I'd like to take yet.

Another thing I was thinking of doing was making my car street legal all the time and if I do that then I guess plumbing it back to the DP would be the way to go. Thanks for the advise also.

-Dan

 

what exactly are you talking about *sych*? I think I know what you're trying to say but its not synchorizing. there're nothing to sych. Dynojet simply reads the signal by the EMF it produces and reads it. There're no check sum, error detection or constant feedback for it to really *sync* between the two equipments (in this case, the car and the dyno).

As for you being able to sync to 720 degrees, I guess you must have one of those special rotaries that only fire once every 2 revolution since you can *sync* it with your equipment.


I'm done with this thread. sorry Cris for hijacking it.

 

Here is a link to my 18 psi graph(.81 P trim PT67), I let off at ~7500rpm. You can see why I asked about torque, I think these are almost the same turbo(what is the hotside again?).The spool up is much faster with a target boost of 20psi, with similar numbers coming ~several hundred RPM sooner. Carl
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/member...hp?img_id=8937

 

Those #'s look good, the torque seems a little low for 18psi though but it held well at higher rpm. I would expect at least 350-360rwtq at 18psi. Other than that, its nice.

The turbo that is in crisp's car has a 1.00 hot side.

 

Carl's chart added to the comparison:

Just realized this was the wrong thread, oh well.

 

I thought DynoJet's measured torque and HP was an equation from that...the whole 5252 rpm cross.

So I really don't understand how he has so much hp with such little torque but damn this thread has some drama issues.

 

It's OK crispy, this is what two adults do when they love each other but have a disagreement, we'll be just fine. I'm sure of it

 

That's what I was wondering. I didn't know there was any other way to measure it. Anyone care to explain?

 

The 5252 still holds true. The problem here was that the pickup was actually measuring the rpm twice as much as the actual. At 140mph, the pick up was probably reading 16000rpm when it was actually at 8000rpm. If you want to do some math, Go to say 6000rpm (should be around 105mph). so at 105mph, the car made around 400rwhp and 170-175rwtq (hard to interpolate from the chart). If you multiply the rpm by 2. You'll get 12000rpm. You can also pick another point, the variable I use here is 17.5mph/rpm so you can pick any rpm you want to do the math on and plug it in to determine where the mph should be and use the formula I provided below.

Use 12000rpm on the equation you mentioned

HP = rpm/5252*torque and see if it comes up close to 400rwhp....

the entire argument was that the torque can be multiply by 2 to get the exact number because the setting was set wrong during the pull.