Faster Is Faster

Name a few good turbos that can produce 400rwhp@(14psi max). Dont wanna get too big for my t2 because its not fun to drive if the turbo wakes up 5000rpm for real action. Is to4b too small for me?

Ryde _Or_Die

Any of the T04s should be good for your setup. Most make around 400rwhp at around 15psi.

Ryde _Or_Die

The 60-1 is very common for streetported engines. A T04b, T04E, T04S would all work well.

RETed

Those turbos will not do it at 14psi - try more like 20psi.

To make that kinda power on 14psi, you're looking at something in the T70 size range.&nbsp A turbo that big is just too laggy to street.

Basically, you smoking a pipe dream looking for a turbo that's small that puts out enough airflow to support 400hp to the wheels.


-Ted

Ryde _Or_Die

So everyone on here that says their 60-1 makes 400rwhp at 15psi is lying? Thats all I ever hear on here. So what are 60-1's capable of at 15psi then when set up properly?

andericus mack

As I posted on the setup thread, my 62-1 makes 350
whp. I have 8.5 comp rotors, so I would see more
like 375-380 with stock rotors. The 350 pull was at
1bar and running rich. A 62-1 is a quick spool, low
pressure turbo- can support 70lb/min. It has the small
shaft. Either that, or the apex kit is a quick spooler.
I agree with RETed, in the real world, you need a t78,
t70, or one of the big gt garretts to see 400rwhp at
1bar

45psi

Go with an Greddy TD07 25g seup. I think this is the best streetable kit, that Greddy offers. Nice spool up and great top end. You should be able to hit your hp goals with this setup.

BDC

Turbonetics 60-1 HIFI, pump gas, and 14-16psi


B

Ryde _Or_Die

And the hifi is smaller than the regular 60-1, correct?

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

In australia you can make around 350-370rwhp on a s4 block with a t04/66 at 15psi but i have heard the you guys in america get higher readings so you probably just get that 400rwhp. that much power down here is crazy and would be a freaky street machine but i guess in a t2 would not be as violent cause of weight but most of the cars down here are done on gen 1s so they are violent on the street, if your opening your engine, do a really big extend port to decrease spoolup times

andericus mack

I stand corrected, after thinking about it, I was
dynoing with a coil that was failing[350whp]at
14.7psi. I also have a conservative tune.I had
a jacobs pro pack. Don't do this- they eat coils
and spark plugs for lunch! After switching back
to a t2 coil and stock ignition, the car ran stronger.

Fox4Life

iTrader: (4)

haha... BDC i think your an exception to the rule.

Your air to water IC helped a bit i would say. what kind of port was on your motor when you dynod it?

Anyways.. A 60-1 could get you very close to your goal at 14 psi. And even if you only put down like 375, thats still more then 400 at the flywheel. Good luck!

RETed

Well, if you're going to keep putting up that graph...

Why don't you tell the audience that the run was made on a custom A2W intercooler that was running an ice water mixture that dropped your intake temps below 70F...

And, for the record, since you like to bring it up so much - I tell everyone that refers to that run as bullshit. Your fuel injectors were locking up (4x720, which cannot support 400), and the big spike at the top end was probably due to that happening. Sure, the spike put you over the 400hp mark, but it was an anomoly. If you extrapolate the graph and remove the big spike at the top end, I don't think you would've hit 400.

We run the numbers, and the 60-1 Hi-Fi is not supposed to hit 400. A "regular" 60-1 should not have any problem. We're talking running on pump gas with a boost ceiling of 20psi, and (at most) a FMIC, which cannot get the intake temps as low as yours on that run.

This makes your claims very dangerous to those wanting to do the same. I have to keep reminding them it's not possible and explain how you managed to put down the big numbers on such a small turbo...


-Ted

Matlock

I think 1fastt2 made 405 at 15psi. There's another guy around claiming similiar # at 15psi, I don't remember his name though.

Maxthe7man

14 psi on at T04e 57/60 trim, dyno operator insisted that I not spin the rollers any faster and shut the run down early, this front mount i/c s4 with stock ports on 550's /1600's with E6k.... no dyno tuning , this was baseline run on a mustang dyno...
I was on my way to 400 rwhp+ but was shut down early.. Now I have a SP s5 with the same setup....much more power...Max

BDC

It's not BS, Ted. I was there. I did it repeatedly over and over on BUR9EQ plugs all around, the A2W intercooler jacketted from a _stock Turbo II top mount intercooler_, and a home-built, street ported S4 block with a gazillion miles on it (easily over 150,000 at that point) using 93 octane pump gas. For goodness sakes Ted, you know as well as I do that the very turbo in question is your friend Fred Jin's old one off his 10th! My intake temps started at the high 50's and ended at nearly 120F degrees.

It was real. I've got the sheets to prove it. Many people saw it the two different days I did it. The car ran almost 98mph in the 8th mi on pump gas with it on one bar of boost! How else do you explain this? I'm very offended that you refuse to believe this is true but instead call it "an anomoly" and "bullshit".

Here's your anomoly, Ted (and this is for everyone else who thinks it's crap):

http://bdc.genxracing.com/Videos/BDC4.avi

I would argue that since you can't find a way to explain it outside of your tuning experience, that you automatically dismiss it as a false claim. This is characteristic of you and has been for quite some time. Try and give me the benefit of the doubt for a change on this one instead of assuming that it's not true. Try and find any way that it's possible that it happened.

It's not a dangerous assertion and I don't believe it leads people down the wrong path because I do tell them how I did it. Peter Giljevic even backs this dyno up and says it's possible with the combination of stuff I used at the time.

Good grief! Use this as an example of other things out there that could help you better increase your skills -> these kinds of things lend themselves to the questions of how we can do both more power and more reliability.

B

BDC

I'm not the exception to the rule. I'm just lucky and happened upon something that worked.

B

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

The way I see it I think BDC (and everyone else who does) should KEEP POSTING that so people begin to realize how much optomizing a set-up can improve HP instead of this "bolt on a larger turbo" attitude that is so prevelant.

If they have less HP and want his HP #s they should copy his set-up, he will tell you what he was running- no secrets.

Many seen to think improving intake flow isn't as big a deal on a turbo application. Why, it seems to me if you increase the CFM and velocity of the system the losses due to turbulence and drag are going to be much higher!

Doing 1st through 5 gear redline runs on my 60-1 Hi Fi my H-mount (w/ no hood vent yet) never data logged over 40 deg C- that is a home made IC system as is BDCs.

I was also at 100% duty cycle by 7,000 rpm on my 720s and 1600s and I can tell you it has a loss of power like ignition cut- no power surge. I guess the Walbro couldn't keep up (inj size should be good for 660 hp).

Hey BDC what is your traction like?

I have 225/50 Yok A520 (180 treadware) on 8" rims ~0.5 rear camber. From a roll 1st gear I lose traction totally by ~4,000rpm, 2nd I lose it completely by ~ 5,000 and in 3rd it steps the rear out ~5,500 (if I roll into 3rd on the freeway it is OK, but any curve to the road, damp or cold pavement and it loses it in 3rd.)

Maxthe7man

You can make alot of power with a smaller turbo for sure, the limit seems to be the exhaust side more than the compressor in alot of cases, you can always make up for compressor inefficiencies with density recovery via good intercooling on the compressor side, howevere there aren' to many ways to fix to small of a turbine and housing.. Back pressure and its reduction goes along way...Max

1FastT2

iTrader: (1)

I can support BDC's claim. I pulled 405rwhp @ 15psi on 94 octane pump gas running a 60-1. That run was even acheived with an extreamly rich tune and 95° ambient outside air temps. No trickery up my sleaves and maybe just a little bit of luck.

BDC - nice avatar

BDC

Heh, thanks. I stole it from you because I was too lazy to make one of my own.

B

Wargasm

I made over 400 rwhp at 15 psi on a T04S (dunno exact figure as dyno lost rpm pickup right in my power peak!)... the last recorded figure was something like 405 hp and that was still short of my peak power RPM.

I was also running RIDICULOUSLY conservative timing. I think that with proper ignition timing I could break 440 rwhp at 15 PSI on this car. This was on pump gas with a street port with all tuning done by me.

Brian

SPOautos

you guys running the 60-1 what rpm are your hitting 15psi?

STEPHEN

BDC

Mine was in the mid to upper 7000rpm range.

B

JScott

I made 408rwhp, specs in sig. This was in 104deg ambient temps and my air temps were at 128deg's by 7k. I was over 400rwhp by 6500rpm's, made 408 at 7krpms. My porting is pretty mild too. I think the key was pointed out in that other post. I have the cast divided manifold and I think it flows pretty good. I don't think the compressor is the limiting factor. If it'll make the boost and heats kept down, it's doing fine.
Spool up is acceptable w/ my setup. I reach 10psi by 4500rpms and full boost(15psi) by 4800. The local dyno is very professional, with many big name racers in all the time so I believe it to be accurate. I also trapped over 120mph on Kumho 712 225x45r17's, spinning most of the first 1/8mile so this supports the dyno numbers as well.