Carl Byck

Well, pulled a 30 hour straight build on my race car w/the help of Dave Segalla(Thanks Dave). The good is this turbo has lots of potential, the bad is it blew up(brand new turbo) on the the third power pull on the dyno @15psi, with AFR of 10.1:1@~6000 rpm . The Ugly is I have just 4 days til Mazfest, and will be out of it again unless a replacement turbo arrives by Tuesday... Anyway, on a ~4000rpm test pull with 10.1:1 afr, we made 253ftlbs at 4100 rpm(on a spring, not an EBC), and ~300ftlbs @5200rpm. So, I think that Rogers (Kabooski) numbers ~520 @20 psi are very possible. We were just starting to do some power pulls when the bearing failed. The turbo was brand new, with less than an hour on it(half of that on boost), 114 octane, -4 feed, -10 drain(mobil 1), no restrictor, ~6000rpm, 10.1 AFR, CRAP, Warranty time.
We'll try again soon, I may even bring the car to socal, and tune on friday, we'll see. Since we had very conservative timing, and made those nice torque numbers, I think we have a winner(if they last more than ten minutes). I'll get the exact numbers(timing) posted after I get the exact #s from Dave monday. Really sucks cause Dave never got a chance to dial it in. He worked many hours, as did I, only to have the turbo take a **** on us. I know that PT will take care of it, but F! Note worthy is the torque, since we had a healthy split, and not much advance. Anyway, I am goin to bed, as I will only ramble tonight. Later all, Carl

adictd2b00st

thats not what i wanted to hear lol i'm hoping mine lasts more than an hour now!!! altho your right the torque #'s are inviting keep us posted!

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Are you running an oil restrictor? Just asking because my Turbonetics T04B 60-1 died within 1000km but I had a restrictor installed. Its removed now but I have not fixed the turbo. (If indeed its the turbo) Not even sure if it was the restrictors fault.

What was the turbo failure like. Loss of boost?

APEXL8T

**** man....I wish we could get this oil thing resolved! I got -4 line with -10 dump but I also have the ATP gt35 restictor comming in. I have the regular Garrett TO4R
and am putting the motor together to stab it.
Do we know what cc or flow rate or volume turbos need?

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Da,n that sucks at least the preliminary #'s look GOOD

Hope you can fix it in time!

kabooski

sorry to hear that Carl


10.1 is plenty rich for 15 PSI
once you get the turbo fixed
start to lean it out on the dyno

till about 10:8-11.0 you should see a nice gain
I was running 11:5.1 AFR on my pulls
with a mix of C16 and pump

on my low boost setting 15 PSI
I run 93 pump with no problems

also get some

NGK B9EGV plugs
Advance auto parts can have them next day in most cases
$8 each or cheaper

FD3S_wanted

iTrader: (5)

I would like more info about the oil restrictor thing. I have never heard of it.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

That sucks Carl. I hope you get the car back up and running in time.

supracosworth

I had a PT67 on my Supra and it also blew the bearings and spew oil within first 1000kms. Had it replaced under warranty and I was wondering all the time what went wrong. I'll look at the oil supply again in case it's my fault as the manufacturers made clear they won't replace it second time round.

Carl Byck

Now that I have slept, here is the exact deal;

Turbo let go on the third power pull...... brand new turbo, 0 miles, -4 feed, -10 drain straight down on the drain, 90 psi oil, Mobil 1, no restrictor, NGK racing 6725-11.5 plugs(new), 10.1:1 AFR, conservative base line timing, 114 octane, low EGTs and ~@ 6000rpm.

Made 300ftlbs of torque at 4000 RPM on base line timing. So, I think we were headed for a great day, when this BS happened... I'll be back on it by next week. Turbo should be taken care of under warranty.
So, I may put my tiny little TO4B (previously called a TO4S by me, I was wrong), or my T66 .81 Q trim. I think that the T66 will be laggier than want, but we'll see. I probably will not make Mazfest, although as long as it really is the turbo(not the oil control rings), I may go for it, and tune on Friday at "7s only" @ BW raceway. If the car has another problem, I can put it in the show LOL. CRAAAAAAAP...

Carl Byck

the previous owner had a restrictor on my small Garrett turbo, worked great for over 15000 miles, still works today. I do not get it. I think the turbo manufacturers are blowing it by not setting specific oil requirements, and both the consumer, and the manufacturer get screwed. We need to no inlet, outlet, pressure range, and anything else they can share. Even if they replace it, in the end their cost of doing business goes up, and consequently the price of turbos. I just cannot rember in past history(go back 5 years, or more) so many turbo failures as we see these days... I dunno, maybe it's all made by ten year old pakistani children in a sweat shop LOL. Carl

kabooski

My PT67 has scuff marks on the compressor inlet
Like if the wheel is making contact

Still works tho..lol
No chips on the actual wheel
No smoking

It'll need a rebuild soon I recken

I use a -3AN feed line
no restrictor

BDC

Perhaps there is a Quality Control issue at PT ...

B

Carl Byck

Yup, it comes, and goes, T'netics is worse though. I was worried about Oil control rings, but there is a 1/4 cup of mobil 1 in the IC pipe before the FMIC. Is that definitive turbo failure? Or could it still be oil control rings?

RexRyder

iTrader: (10)

Maybe because you didn't break it in? I bought a 60 trim, drove it around for 100 miles (w/ no boost), and it still works good today. I even boosted 26 psi on it a few times.

88fc3sw/HX83

Carl,
Do you have a Oil catch can hooked up properly? When I didn't have one, we found oil in the same place...thought it was the turbo, but wasn't.

Carl Byck

Jim, the catch can is hooked up to the vent right behind the oil fill tube, and the fill tube itself. The can was empty. Where was yours hooked up?

APEXL8T

most of the guys run another vacume line(from the catch can itself) to the intake of turbo to help evacuate the pressure in the motor. As I have read on the other thread.
BTW how your bud with the divided do?

Carl Byck

Never heard of breaking in a turbo. tons of guys bolt it up, and go. I ahve done so half a dozen times, bnever a problem. This turbo's sweet spot is around 25-30 psi, I was boosting 15lbs. The turbo was pre-oiled, clearances, and end play were checked. The turbo was run on the motor for ~1/2 hour before boosting, it smoked a little, but usually they do for at least that long when they are brand new. Carl

Carl Byck

I think excess pressure is really only an issue in BB turbos. Most Journal bearing turbos want alot of pressure at a relativley small volume, thus the -4 in, no restrictor. Turbo was installed as Garrett recomends. Not sure how Dave did, he is dynoing right now. Basesd on what I see, I would expect ~450-500@20 psi. Seems like most everyone is dynoing on pump, and keeping it to ~15 PSI MAX. Not sure why, I would tune to 20-25 psi, and then run it at 15 if I was on the street. Hopefully there is some default mapping up to 30psi to deal with spikes etc.

Poweraxel

have you confirmed PT will warranty your problem?

Carl Byck

I bought the turbo through an authorized dealer, they(the dealer) are generally very good about this stuff, (by reputation) we shall see. I cannot imagine they won't, the set-up is well documented, and their install guidelines were followed to a T. I am not sure what you can do wrong in assembly, but whatever it is, they seem to have screwed it up. the turbo was as I stated, brand new with all proper size, and orientation on the oil lines etc. Oil temps were only 160 degrees at the filter. If they do not, I will have it rebuilt, and post something mean about them

APEXL8T

I wonder that myself however i guess it boils down to putting $5gl or more in your car everyday.
I was planning on 20PSI with race gas and 15 for street. However I hear you may have to have a winter tune and a summer tune......at least we do here.Your weather stays pretty constant back there.(Damn wind acroos the San Mateo sucks)

Mark'sMazda

damn, sorry about your luck carl. for what it's worth, a good friend of mine bought a new holset hx35 for his mustang, that turbo also also spewed oil after about 5-6 rides around the block at <10psi

why would you need a winter/summer tune? Isnt there an adjustable temp correction map?

Carl Byck

Ecus that lack temperature corrections exist, they were invented in the 50s, and 60s, and are in widespread use by Rotary owners around the world, go figure