Fuel Rail Question
06-26-02, 03:52 PM
#1
Fuel Rail Question
I am building a Cosmo Powered Turbo First Gen GSL-SE.
Almost everything is sorted out, and I only have a few details to work out.
I will be using the stock Cosmo primary fuel rail with 720's and the secondary's will be on a custom fuel rail with two bosch 1600's. a -10AN line will be feeding the whole thing.
My question:
How do I route the fuel most efficiently?
As you can see, I am not quite sure which would be best. The whole point of getting the large -10AN line is for the massive volume I want to provide with my Aeromotive Fuel Pump and regulator.
This is for a street application in the 400rwhp range.
Thanks.
Almost everything is sorted out, and I only have a few details to work out.
I will be using the stock Cosmo primary fuel rail with 720's and the secondary's will be on a custom fuel rail with two bosch 1600's. a -10AN line will be feeding the whole thing.
My question:
How do I route the fuel most efficiently?
As you can see, I am not quite sure which would be best. The whole point of getting the large -10AN line is for the massive volume I want to provide with my Aeromotive Fuel Pump and regulator.
This is for a street application in the 400rwhp range.
Thanks.
Last edited by Directfreak; 06-26-02 at 03:55 PM.
06-26-02, 04:52 PM
#2
Rotary Freak
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The stock primaries in the13b-re are 720cc?!
Why -10 fuel line?? That's huge! If you think you need to run -10 lines because the FPR has -10 ORB inlet ports thats not the case. Does that regulator come with the -10 orb to -10 AN fittings? How do you plan on running line from the stock primary rail to the regulator? Are you going to weld/tap-drill a fitting onto it?
What I (i'm sure others dissagree) think the best way to plumb your fuel lines are is to "Y" the line comming from the pump and send one to the primary and the other to the secondary rail, come out of the rails and send those lines to each side of the regulator. Then you can just send the return back to tank.
That regulator looks like it only has one screw to set the pressure so I'm guessing it's a 1:1 regulator meaning it adjusts the fuel pressure at the same rate as the intake manifold's pressure. IE if you set the base pressure to 40psi with the vac line dissconnected then hook it up to your intake manifold after the throttle blades at idle it will read lower than 40psi (if you are pulling 10psi vac it will set the fuel pressure to 30psi) works the same way for when you go under boost, that 40 psi setting at 10psi of boost will rise your fuel pressure to 50psi. Understand?
Where are you getting a secondary fuel rail for the 13b-re intake manifold? I was thinking of making my own but if it's priced right that might be a better way to go.
Cam
Why -10 fuel line?? That's huge! If you think you need to run -10 lines because the FPR has -10 ORB inlet ports thats not the case. Does that regulator come with the -10 orb to -10 AN fittings? How do you plan on running line from the stock primary rail to the regulator? Are you going to weld/tap-drill a fitting onto it?
What I (i'm sure others dissagree) think the best way to plumb your fuel lines are is to "Y" the line comming from the pump and send one to the primary and the other to the secondary rail, come out of the rails and send those lines to each side of the regulator. Then you can just send the return back to tank.
That regulator looks like it only has one screw to set the pressure so I'm guessing it's a 1:1 regulator meaning it adjusts the fuel pressure at the same rate as the intake manifold's pressure. IE if you set the base pressure to 40psi with the vac line dissconnected then hook it up to your intake manifold after the throttle blades at idle it will read lower than 40psi (if you are pulling 10psi vac it will set the fuel pressure to 30psi) works the same way for when you go under boost, that 40 psi setting at 10psi of boost will rise your fuel pressure to 50psi. Understand?
Where are you getting a secondary fuel rail for the 13b-re intake manifold? I was thinking of making my own but if it's priced right that might be a better way to go.
Cam
06-26-02, 06:20 PM
#3
Originally posted by setzep
The stock primaries in the13b-re are 720cc?!
The stock primaries in the13b-re are 720cc?!
Originally posted by setzep
Why -10 fuel line?? That's huge! If you think you need to run -10 lines because the FPR has -10 ORB inlet ports thats not the case. Does that regulator come with the -10 orb to -10 AN fittings?
Why -10 fuel line?? That's huge! If you think you need to run -10 lines because the FPR has -10 ORB inlet ports thats not the case. Does that regulator come with the -10 orb to -10 AN fittings?
Originally posted by setzep
How do you plan on running line from the stock primary rail to the regulator? Are you going to weld/tap-drill a fitting onto it?
How do you plan on running line from the stock primary rail to the regulator? Are you going to weld/tap-drill a fitting onto it?
Originally posted by setzep
What I (i'm sure others dissagree) think the best way to plumb your fuel lines are is to "Y" the line comming from the pump and send one to the primary and the other to the secondary rail, come out of the rails and send those lines to each side of the regulator. Then you can just send the return back to tank.
What I (i'm sure others dissagree) think the best way to plumb your fuel lines are is to "Y" the line comming from the pump and send one to the primary and the other to the secondary rail, come out of the rails and send those lines to each side of the regulator. Then you can just send the return back to tank.
the Secondary to Primary to Return.. All the options I listed are feasable.
This is why I started the thread, I want the BEST solution possible.
Originally posted by setzep
That regulator looks like it only has one screw to set the pressure so I'm guessing it's a 1:1 regulator meaning it adjusts the fuel pressure at the same rate as the intake manifold's pressure. IE if you set the base pressure to 40psi with the vac line dissconnected then hook it up to your intake manifold after the throttle blades at idle it will read lower than 40psi (if you are pulling 10psi vac it will set the fuel pressure to 30psi) works the same way for when you go under boost, that 40 psi setting at 10psi of boost will rise your fuel pressure to 50psi. Understand?
That regulator looks like it only has one screw to set the pressure so I'm guessing it's a 1:1 regulator meaning it adjusts the fuel pressure at the same rate as the intake manifold's pressure. IE if you set the base pressure to 40psi with the vac line dissconnected then hook it up to your intake manifold after the throttle blades at idle it will read lower than 40psi (if you are pulling 10psi vac it will set the fuel pressure to 30psi) works the same way for when you go under boost, that 40 psi setting at 10psi of boost will rise your fuel pressure to 50psi. Understand?
Originally posted by setzep
Where are you getting a secondary fuel rail for the 13b-re intake manifold? I was thinking of making my own but if it's priced right that might be a better way to go.
Cam
Where are you getting a secondary fuel rail for the 13b-re intake manifold? I was thinking of making my own but if it's priced right that might be a better way to go.
Cam
Force Fuel Injection in Miami. They charge $140 bucks for it. It might get cheaper if you and Mike want them as well. They are easy to make because they are top feed. I have to take them the old fuel rail and the manifold for a perfect fit. They do ALL the big fuel systems locally.
06-26-02, 06:39 PM
#4
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So you're not using the stock primary 13b-re fuel rail then? The stock one has side fed injectors while the -se injectors are top feed. Or will the -se rail drop in the 13b-re? I'm just tring to figure out how you are doing this.
What you want is costant fuel pressure, volume doesn't need to be that high as long as the fuel pressure doesn't drop off when the demand is there.
I was thinking about Tig welding a fitting in my primary rail also.
If you do run those -10 lines a single line going from the pump-sec rail-primary rail-FPR-tank would be best then because if you did it the way I said you'd have a lot of damn big hose in there, basically ellimates two hoses running the fuel in series. Or were you thinking about stepping down the line size once you got to the rail?
So you are just thinking of setting it at a set pressure and have no line hooked up to it? I suppose you can tune it into haltech this way.
Hmm I'd be intrested if he'd give us a discount for a "group buy". Once he makes the first one I'm sure the other two would take 1/4 the time to make. What ports would he machine into the ends of the fuel rail or would it be up to us to decide?
Oh yeah, what fuel filter are you going to use?
What you want is costant fuel pressure, volume doesn't need to be that high as long as the fuel pressure doesn't drop off when the demand is there.
I was thinking about Tig welding a fitting in my primary rail also.
If you do run those -10 lines a single line going from the pump-sec rail-primary rail-FPR-tank would be best then because if you did it the way I said you'd have a lot of damn big hose in there, basically ellimates two hoses running the fuel in series. Or were you thinking about stepping down the line size once you got to the rail?
So you are just thinking of setting it at a set pressure and have no line hooked up to it? I suppose you can tune it into haltech this way.
Hmm I'd be intrested if he'd give us a discount for a "group buy". Once he makes the first one I'm sure the other two would take 1/4 the time to make. What ports would he machine into the ends of the fuel rail or would it be up to us to decide?
Oh yeah, what fuel filter are you going to use?
06-27-02, 09:39 AM
#5
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06-27-02, 04:32 PM
#6
Originally posted by 13BAce
Check out http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/MODS/FUEL/fpr.htm
Check out http://fc3s-pro.com/TECH/MODS/FUEL/fpr.htm
The Earls' metric adapter will definately help in getting the primary rail done without welding.
06-27-02, 04:33 PM
#7
Originally posted by setzep
So you're not using the stock primary 13b-re fuel rail then? The stock one has side fed injectors while the -se injectors are top feed. Or will the -se rail drop in the 13b-re? I'm just tring to figure out how you are doing this.
What you want is costant fuel pressure, volume doesn't need to be that high as long as the fuel pressure doesn't drop off when the demand is there.
I was thinking about Tig welding a fitting in my primary rail also.
If you do run those -10 lines a single line going from the pump-sec rail-primary rail-FPR-tank would be best then because if you did it the way I said you'd have a lot of damn big hose in there, basically ellimates two hoses running the fuel in series. Or were you thinking about stepping down the line size once you got to the rail?
So you are just thinking of setting it at a set pressure and have no line hooked up to it? I suppose you can tune it into haltech this way.
Hmm I'd be intrested if he'd give us a discount for a "group buy". Once he makes the first one I'm sure the other two would take 1/4 the time to make. What ports would he machine into the ends of the fuel rail or would it be up to us to decide?
Oh yeah, what fuel filter are you going to use?
So you're not using the stock primary 13b-re fuel rail then? The stock one has side fed injectors while the -se injectors are top feed. Or will the -se rail drop in the 13b-re? I'm just tring to figure out how you are doing this.
What you want is costant fuel pressure, volume doesn't need to be that high as long as the fuel pressure doesn't drop off when the demand is there.
I was thinking about Tig welding a fitting in my primary rail also.
If you do run those -10 lines a single line going from the pump-sec rail-primary rail-FPR-tank would be best then because if you did it the way I said you'd have a lot of damn big hose in there, basically ellimates two hoses running the fuel in series. Or were you thinking about stepping down the line size once you got to the rail?
So you are just thinking of setting it at a set pressure and have no line hooked up to it? I suppose you can tune it into haltech this way.
Hmm I'd be intrested if he'd give us a discount for a "group buy". Once he makes the first one I'm sure the other two would take 1/4 the time to make. What ports would he machine into the ends of the fuel rail or would it be up to us to decide?
Oh yeah, what fuel filter are you going to use?
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06-27-02, 10:06 PM
#10
Originally posted by setzep
Does your fuel rail look like mine? If so I don't know how you plan on screwing in a fitting to it.
Does your fuel rail look like mine? If so I don't know how you plan on screwing in a fitting to it.
We looked over the stock fuel rails, and they look like they have been brazed only, not even welded.
We cannot tap them or weld to them without royally screwing them up. For any REAL power I will have to have BOTH rails custom made.
So...Plan "B"
Both Fuel rails will be custom made with a minimum of -8AN lines, though likely -10AN. More money I wasn't expecting to spend. CRAP.
Cam, go get an Excel program, even the 97' version will open my Excel XP files. Then I can send you the details with links, pics, prices, part numbers, etc.
I sent Mike a preliminary version of it. He said I have too much time on my hands!
