big wastegate overkill? boost controller
09-30-13, 10:23 PM
#1
big wastegate overkill? boost controller
So I have decided to get a borg warner s360 turbocharger. I'm choosing the .91 divided housing. I wanted to just buy one wastegate and use a plate to divide the 2 sides up to the wastegate valve. I'm thinking of using 1/8" plate, maybe thicker. I'm debating on how big of a wastegate to go with. I know the plate in the middle will be taking up some of the volume that the wastegate would normally
I'm wondering if getting an electronic boost controller will make that big of a diference. Should I just get an overkill wastegate? Shouldn't a propely sized wastegate just give me a good tunable boost pressure? I remember my s5 turbo with a to4 intake side held 10psi pretty well.
I'm wondering if getting an electronic boost controller will make that big of a diference. Should I just get an overkill wastegate? Shouldn't a propely sized wastegate just give me a good tunable boost pressure? I remember my s5 turbo with a to4 intake side held 10psi pretty well.
10-01-13, 12:34 AM
#2
i don't really understand what you're asking. do you mean you want to keep the wastegate runners divided right up until the wastegate?
Sure you can do that but you'll have to make it merge to a single pipe at one point because there aren't any "divided" waste gates.
The equivalent of a divided wastegate is running 2 wastegates, one on each runner.
For wastegate selection, i would stick to what's proven. IMO TiAL products are top notch. The new MV-R wastegates are fairly compact and sized nicely for most mid-large turbos on a rotary.
does that answer your question at all? i didn't really understand what you meant in the first paragraph.
Sure you can do that but you'll have to make it merge to a single pipe at one point because there aren't any "divided" waste gates.
The equivalent of a divided wastegate is running 2 wastegates, one on each runner.
For wastegate selection, i would stick to what's proven. IMO TiAL products are top notch. The new MV-R wastegates are fairly compact and sized nicely for most mid-large turbos on a rotary.
does that answer your question at all? i didn't really understand what you meant in the first paragraph.
10-01-13, 03:54 AM
#3
I did this on my 60mm wastegate to keep the manifold true divided.
I started with 1/8" stainless and it tore like paper. I went to 3/16" stainless and it lasted until I started racing and then it tore like paper as well.
I made sure it has a floating design for thermal expansion, it was the buffeting from the pressure differential that caused it to fatigue and tear.
I started with 1/8" stainless and it tore like paper. I went to 3/16" stainless and it lasted until I started racing and then it tore like paper as well.
I made sure it has a floating design for thermal expansion, it was the buffeting from the pressure differential that caused it to fatigue and tear.
10-01-13, 04:33 AM
#4
That is cool^
Just putting it out there, the turblown tdx61 looks the goods too. Also, two 38-40mm gates seems to be cheaper than one 50 or 60mm.
This thread interests me as I was looking at the bw s360 or the fmw version myself, (ended up going with the garret-based turblown cos it was designed for rotaries and the bw compressor maps seemed a bit biased toward big boost)and debating whether to go a 60mm gate and build a divided runner, or conventional single, or go twins.. I ended up ordering two turbosmart 40mm which I will have to plumb in, it will be a tight fit, hopefully it will be worth it.
Just putting it out there, the turblown tdx61 looks the goods too. Also, two 38-40mm gates seems to be cheaper than one 50 or 60mm.
This thread interests me as I was looking at the bw s360 or the fmw version myself, (ended up going with the garret-based turblown cos it was designed for rotaries and the bw compressor maps seemed a bit biased toward big boost)and debating whether to go a 60mm gate and build a divided runner, or conventional single, or go twins.. I ended up ordering two turbosmart 40mm which I will have to plumb in, it will be a tight fit, hopefully it will be worth it.
Last edited by WANKfactor; 10-01-13 at 04:37 AM.
10-01-13, 09:11 PM
#5
i don't really understand what you're asking. do you mean you want to keep the wastegate runners divided right up until the wastegate?
Sure you can do that but you'll have to make it merge to a single pipe at one point because there aren't any "divided" waste gates.
The equivalent of a divided wastegate is running 2 wastegates, one on each runner.
For wastegate selection, i would stick to what's proven. IMO TiAL products are top notch. The new MV-R wastegates are fairly compact and sized nicely for most mid-large turbos on a rotary.
does that answer your question at all? i didn't really understand what you meant in the first paragraph.
Sure you can do that but you'll have to make it merge to a single pipe at one point because there aren't any "divided" waste gates.
The equivalent of a divided wastegate is running 2 wastegates, one on each runner.
For wastegate selection, i would stick to what's proven. IMO TiAL products are top notch. The new MV-R wastegates are fairly compact and sized nicely for most mid-large turbos on a rotary.
does that answer your question at all? i didn't really understand what you meant in the first paragraph.
Thanks for sharing blue t2! I might look into 2 smaller wastegates now.
My friend can get a really good deal on garrett turbos, so right now I am waiting for the price on the BW s360 vs the price I can get on a to4e or to4s garrett turbo.
10-02-13, 10:20 AM
#6
I did this on my 60mm wastegate to keep the manifold true divided.
I started with 1/8" stainless and it tore like paper. I went to 3/16" stainless and it lasted until I started racing and then it tore like paper as well.
I made sure it has a floating design for thermal expansion, it was the buffeting from the pressure differential that caused it to fatigue and tear.
I started with 1/8" stainless and it tore like paper. I went to 3/16" stainless and it lasted until I started racing and then it tore like paper as well.
I made sure it has a floating design for thermal expansion, it was the buffeting from the pressure differential that caused it to fatigue and tear.
10-02-13, 12:22 PM
#7
No welds broke.
The divider was welded to the ring on the wastegate side was free to slide in the tube for thermal expansion.
I will see if I can find a picture of the piece that broke off.
It broke 1/4" to 1/2" into the tube from the turbo flange side from memory. Basically, where the divider gently bent in order to evenly bisect the tube despite the set direction of flange where it has to enter the turbo to divide the wastegate holes.
The outer edges of the divider where it touched the tube were burnished and mushroomed showing it had been continuously slammed back and forth from pressure pulse differentials between exhaust runners until the piece fatigued and broke.
The strength of the pressure pulses is very strong in the rotary.
If I had cut the wastegate tube along its length and welded the divider down the middle I think I could have made this last much longer, but I also noticed the difference in spool was very slight and in the off idle to 2,000rpm range. Nice for the street, not used in racing.
The divider was welded to the ring on the wastegate side was free to slide in the tube for thermal expansion.
I will see if I can find a picture of the piece that broke off.
It broke 1/4" to 1/2" into the tube from the turbo flange side from memory. Basically, where the divider gently bent in order to evenly bisect the tube despite the set direction of flange where it has to enter the turbo to divide the wastegate holes.
The outer edges of the divider where it touched the tube were burnished and mushroomed showing it had been continuously slammed back and forth from pressure pulse differentials between exhaust runners until the piece fatigued and broke.
The strength of the pressure pulses is very strong in the rotary.
If I had cut the wastegate tube along its length and welded the divider down the middle I think I could have made this last much longer, but I also noticed the difference in spool was very slight and in the off idle to 2,000rpm range. Nice for the street, not used in racing.
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