C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

No. The car that started this thread has a parallel system. Two pressure pumps in tank, one feeding each rail, and one regulator. We had sensors in each line. One damper was installed on the secondary rail. Mostly because that was a convenient spot. That one damper took care of pulsations in both lines, as seen by the independent pressure sensors. No need for two dampers.

7krayziboi

iTrader: (15)

I must read wrong sir , because I don't understand how the FPD works in the above fuel system,
I'm Sorry if it's obvious to others.

the system is in parallel and each pump feeds each rail, return of each rail goes independently to an FPR.

If the FPD is on the secondary rail (which is independent from primary from the fuel pump to the FPR) how does the FPD does its work on the primary rail ?

Or let's say the return of the primary and secondary meet at a Y-block and goes to the FPR, how does the FPD does its work on the primary , if the FPD is on the secondary rail

Perhaps an FPD on the primary rail has no place/minimal effect there but then why newer vehicle have one on each rail ?

Again sorry if I missed something , I'm trying to get this clear in my head

RGHTBrainDesign

This is why I'm still hoping to be able to fit both, even though my setup is in series, which I believe is the correct way to route a rotary engine.

DC5Daniel

iTrader: (10)

Per Chris' advice, I only ordered one FPD to be plumbed into my secondary rail on my parallel setup. Let's see if mine works out with fewer adapters

RGHTBrainDesign

Fuel Pressure Regulators also act as a fuel pulsation damper... Oops, forgot to mention that.

Makes sense why you only need one then.

ZoomZoom

iTrader: (2)

Fuel pulsation dampener can be found in pretty much all OEM applications as well as the stock fuel system. There is no reason to doubt that they are there for good reason.

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

So, excuse my ignorance, but would adding one in require you to retune?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

In the case of this car, it would have required a retune to get things perfectly sorted.

D4rw1n

iTrader: (2)

Not to start beating the horse again, but.

-----------------------------------------

Email from me to FFE:

Do you have an install guide for the FD fuel step up kit? I have it put together matching what is in your pictures on the website, just had a few extra fittings that I wasn't sure where they needed to go.

I also wanted to ask if it is ok to delete the fuel pulsation damper with the fuelab mini fpr that comes in the kit?

Also, can you create a quote for me that includes everything I need to turn the FD fuel step up kit into a full kit, with whatever primary injectors you recommend?

I'm having a hard time bringing myself to spend $130 - $160 on a fuel pulsation damper when I could put those funds towards a full upgraded fuel system.

Thank you,

Jason







Email back from FFE:

Jason,

Sorry for the delay. I'm working to update our outdated instructions for the Step-Up Kit. I'll have it over to you shortly.

Yes, you can eliminate the stock damper. Also, keep in mind most aftermarket dampers are either OEM dampers from a completely different application or are universal and not tuned to the specific frequencies necessary for a specific setup. If you're set on using one the Radium is probably the best to go with..

I'll work up the quote and send it over shortly.

Thanks,
Aaron


--------------------------------


There still seems to be a lot of confusion on this topic. If I hadn't accidentally stumbled across this thread there would be no doubt in my mind that what FFE was telling me was gospel. After all, they're a rotary specific shop that sells upgraded fuel systems. It is concerning, to say the least.

Gilgamesh

I read somewhere that a small 2 rotor air plane had issues with fuel pressure. Replacing the hard fuel line with rubber line fixed the pulsation issue with this unmanned aerial vehicle.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

anyone try these from CJM?

Rub20B

Hi there,

Im having the weirdest issue with a ID1000/ID2000 issue on a Xcessive LIM. Car is a FC with REW engine.

I attempted for a long time to get it to run on Adaptronic. first the plugin select, then the modular. It would keep on having random misfire at medium to high loads, and on a drop to idle after a fuel cut it would always stall from leanout. even though one could crank the throttle open so idle was 2000 rpm and AFR11:1.

long story short I could not get the adaptronic ecu to work properly as they believed the new Rywire harness was the issue. then I installed a PFC, with the only changes being adding mapsensor and joining the ign wires for the leading coils. Now there is not a single misfire anymore at medium/high load.

though the problem with the return to idle after a fuel cut still persists. even if the fuel cut rpm is raised to 1700 it suffers from a lean/out.

the fuel setup is a fuellab closed loop regulated pump and a fuellab smart pressure regulator. I had a fuel pressure sensor (screwed into the regulator) hooked up to the adaptronic and configured it so the inj opening time gets corrected over the actual fuel pressure.

On the return to idle there was not visible a major drop in fuel pressure, although I am not sure on the filtering that was applied in the sensor signal.

below is a log of a stall after fuel cut, and a return to idle without fuel cut.

Could this be a combination problem of the primaries being further away from the port and a possible fuel pressure fluctuation?

FrankV702

iTrader: (14)

I just found this thread this morning so thanks for bumping it back up. I always figured the FPR acted as a damper enough to not need another. I ended up ordering the radium fpd-r. I have my fuel system in series and plan on running it just before Fuel enter the primary. It looks like that's the best spot, right?

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

I'm no expert but if you are having an issue that requires a FPD, wouldn't the best place be somewhere between the injectors and the FPR?
I'm sure the FPD can help if it was pre injectors but that seems like the least optimal spot.

Please someone explain to me why this is incorrect since I'm about to add a FPD In between the secondary rail and regulator.

Lavitzlegend

iTrader: (3)

I would think having at least one between the primary and secondary rails would be the most beneficial or if you wanted to take it one step further to put one at the entry point to both rails. This way any pulsation emanating from either injector rail will be dampened before traveling to any other part of the system (the FPR would handle anything leaving the secondary rail). My 2011 Subaru WRX has inline dampeners on the feed lines to both rails.

dhahlen

iTrader: (5)

Let's keep this going as I'll be in a similar situation

2 x 1000 and 4 x 2000 or thereabouts.

Currently with CJ rails and an FPR.

What is the ideal plumbing for an FPD. Would someone mind breaking it down in a diagram?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

I never had a FPD on my parallel setup..the FPR took care of any irregularities.It was placed at the end of the Injector run,between the last injector(being fed,at the rail) and the return line to tank.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

..and NO,that isn't the best spot as the Injectors opening and closing are what cause the fuel to need dampening.
You need it at the end of the secondary rail.

Lavitzlegend

iTrader: (3)

Well the reason the FPR needs to be on the return side (after the fuel has already gone through the primary and secondary rails) is that a FPR regulates the pressure up stream from where it is located. So by placing it after all your rails/injectors you ensure that the pressure at the injectors is what is being regulated.

As far as FPD, you want it as close to your injectors as possible and I see 2 different setups that could make sense. Either place 1 FPD at the entry to your secondary rail so it can pull out pulsations from both primary and secondary rails, or get 2 FPDs and place 1 at the entry of both rails. The second method is my personal preference but I believe it has also been shown to be overkill, hence the stock fuel system uses 1 FPD at the entry of the secondary rail. This is assuming you are still using a fuel system plumbed in series. If you switch to a setup in parallel you might need to use 2 FPDs total, 1 at both entries, which I believe is how my 2011 WRX is setup from the factory.

Alpine

I asked Radium about the exact same thing, here's what they said



There is information on each product page on how to select a pulse damper. The main choice is between the FPD-R and the FPD-XR, and this relies only on your base fuel pressure.

The location of the fuel damper should be anywhere on the pressure line, not the regulator return line.

Try to insulate the damper from heat as much as possible and mount far away from heat sources as possible.

Then i asked if i don't have a port for FPD on the fuel rail, what should I do. They responded

If you do not have an extra port on the rail(s) to use, then yes, you will have to use an in-line damper. It can plumbed anywhere on the pressure. The closer to the rails the better, but do what fits within your packaging.

and here is my planned fuel setup (serial) that i drew for them.

Alpine

just now i asked Radium if they think there's any benefit to put the FPD inbetween primary/secondary rail

here's their response

It really doesn't matter. Fuel is incompressible, so it will just as effective no matter where it is located.

dhahlen

iTrader: (5)

Thanks dude. I ordered mine on Sunday. I feed into the secondary rail with -8, so the in-line FPD will go there, then series to primary, then to regulator, then return.

sergejcik

hi did it all went well will id725 . id2000 and fpd you installed before secondaries? i want to do same setup

silverTRD

iTrader: (36)

I have my inline fpd installed before the the primaries mounted on the firewall for packaging reasons.

AlexG13B

iTrader: (7)

I've been having an issue for yrs that I can't seem to figure out. have replaced tons of things and issue still there. gets really lean between like 2700 to 3000 rpms. have to add as much as 15% fuel to get it back to normal
I have a thread I posted on the 3rd gen forums
running ffe rails id150 primary and 2x 2000 secondaries. i decided to try fpd after a few people suggested one. someone even posted similar issue as me and his issue was fixed with fpd
I have the inline dampner placed right before primary rail. my fuel setup is in series and I'm REALLY hoping it fixes my issue