anyone know how to set timing on a rebuild motor ?
11-05-11, 05:26 PM
#51
I did the whole thing where i find the apex seal in the trailing hole, then spin the pulley so i can see the apex seal in the leading hole. marked both locations where the apex seal was visible in the spark plug holes. divided that measurement in half and made a mark on the string, then i put the string back on the pulley and found where the half measurement lands on the pulley (which happen to be the 3rd mark on the pulley) Then I removed the cap on the cas, removed the cas, lined the cas up to the mark, stabbed the cas again, lined up the gear on top of the cas so it was perfectly lined up. Went to start it and nothing. trying to turn over @ 175rpms and never once showed any hint of starting up.
11-05-11, 06:26 PM
#52
verify spark and fuel.
for spark just install some old plugs in the wires and lay them on the strut tower and see whether they're active or not.
for fuel, spray a few shots of carb cleaner/starting fluid in the intake and see if it hiccups/starts dies or not.
if it still does nothing then your motor is severely flooded. disconnect the fuel pump and crank it over for about 1 minute in 15 seconds intervals to blow out any raw fuel in the intake. then pump a few ounces of MMO into each leading plug hole, reinstall and attempt to start it with a slight throttle input.
also i remember you mentioning the throttle position sensor in the other threads a little ways back. be sure your PFC isn't reading full throttle for the narrow range TPS sensor, if it is it is mimicking fuel cut through the ECU. at least i'm fairly sure the PFC still retains that function, i could be wrong.
and lastly, keep in mind that position you have it timed at is TDC not to be confused with the standard 5/20ATDC marks you generally would use when timing an FC engine so your timing maps will be slightly off and more closely resemble an FD map for timing.
for spark just install some old plugs in the wires and lay them on the strut tower and see whether they're active or not.
for fuel, spray a few shots of carb cleaner/starting fluid in the intake and see if it hiccups/starts dies or not.
if it still does nothing then your motor is severely flooded. disconnect the fuel pump and crank it over for about 1 minute in 15 seconds intervals to blow out any raw fuel in the intake. then pump a few ounces of MMO into each leading plug hole, reinstall and attempt to start it with a slight throttle input.
also i remember you mentioning the throttle position sensor in the other threads a little ways back. be sure your PFC isn't reading full throttle for the narrow range TPS sensor, if it is it is mimicking fuel cut through the ECU. at least i'm fairly sure the PFC still retains that function, i could be wrong.
and lastly, keep in mind that position you have it timed at is TDC not to be confused with the standard 5/20ATDC marks you generally would use when timing an FC engine so your timing maps will be slightly off and more closely resemble an FD map for timing.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-05-11 at 06:31 PM.
11-05-11, 07:15 PM
#53
i have spark. with the ignition on and the cas pulled off. I can twist the cas gear and hear the spark wires make a pop sound. Also when i un-flood the motor the wires will arc when i crank it over.
I have fuel, my fuel pressure regulator will read 40-50psi fuel.
i just unflooded the engine. pulled all the plugs off, turned the fuel pump off, cranked it over twice for 5-7 second intervals. I squirted a little 2 cycle into the leading plug hole. Re tighted the spark plugs. re connected the wires.
I have fuel, my fuel pressure regulator will read 40-50psi fuel.
i just unflooded the engine. pulled all the plugs off, turned the fuel pump off, cranked it over twice for 5-7 second intervals. I squirted a little 2 cycle into the leading plug hole. Re tighted the spark plugs. re connected the wires.
11-05-11, 08:06 PM
#54
still no start.
its going to freeze tonight and i cannot get this goddam engine started! I removed the lower rad hose and drained the water out, but i know there is water in the block still that is going to freeze.
I'm so sick of this entire rotary situation I'm in, I have no one knowledgeable to help in person and no shops anywhere within trailer'ing distance I could bring it to, seriously thinking I will just part this car out then light it on fire. I'm disgusted right now. Thanks for all your attempts to get me in the right direction
its going to freeze tonight and i cannot get this goddam engine started! I removed the lower rad hose and drained the water out, but i know there is water in the block still that is going to freeze.
I'm so sick of this entire rotary situation I'm in, I have no one knowledgeable to help in person and no shops anywhere within trailer'ing distance I could bring it to, seriously thinking I will just part this car out then light it on fire. I'm disgusted right now. Thanks for all your attempts to get me in the right direction
11-05-11, 09:32 PM
#55
drain the water out of it, just pull the block drain and leave it out until you get back to it.
fuel pressure doesn't mean the injectors are cycling, it could be in a fuel cut situation like i mentioned. can you hear the injectors click with the CAS when turning it?
fuel pressure doesn't mean the injectors are cycling, it could be in a fuel cut situation like i mentioned. can you hear the injectors click with the CAS when turning it?
11-10-11, 02:18 PM
#63
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The plug is a long hexagonal plug, it goes through the engine mount bracket on the driver's side. It's very easy to find if you apply yourself.
You described perfectly how to verify TDC and stab the CAS a few posts back, good job, you can be confident in that. Now you have to make sure the TPS is adjusted properly (reads zero at idle) and make sure your map is right. There are many people willing to help you with your basemap in the engine management forums.
You could try un-bolting the TPS (but leave it plugged in) and give it some throttle to get it started. Are you sure the engine is getting fuel? Have you tried spraying some start-assist in the intake while cranking it to see if it catches at all?
You described perfectly how to verify TDC and stab the CAS a few posts back, good job, you can be confident in that. Now you have to make sure the TPS is adjusted properly (reads zero at idle) and make sure your map is right. There are many people willing to help you with your basemap in the engine management forums.
You could try un-bolting the TPS (but leave it plugged in) and give it some throttle to get it started. Are you sure the engine is getting fuel? Have you tried spraying some start-assist in the intake while cranking it to see if it catches at all?
11-10-11, 02:45 PM
#64
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Sorry I was hoping to edit that post, you need to put a timing light to it and check that it's idling at 5* ATDC. To answer your question from earlier, the diagram you had of the pulley would be looking from the front of the engine. The engine turns clockwise, so marks to the left of your TDC mark on the pulley will be retarded, or ATDC. If you don't understand or feel comfortable doing any of those things, feel free to PM me.
11-21-11, 02:12 PM
#65
this weekend. Me and the original builder of the car took a look.
Verified spark.
Verified the leading coil
Verified the MSD box to the leading coil
Verified the plug wires
Verified the trailing coils, the unplugged trailing coils for the time being
then things got weird, I have only had 1 gallon fresh fuel in the tank when i have been trying to get it to start. The few times the engine started I had 40-45psi on the FPR gauge with the key in the ACC setting. Well yesterday when we were checking things over, it was cold (30f) and the FPR showed 25psi and again the motor would not start. After adjusting the FPR the psi dropped to 18psi, another adjustment and the FPR went to 10psi, and now its showing 0psi.
I'm going to remove the fuel filter and use a fuel hose to bypass the filter. Then check if the FPR shows correct psi. This should show if the filter is clogged or not. From here, if I have fuel psi I will install another new filter and try to start it up again. If I am not showing fuel psi after bypassing the filter, I will replace the walbro 255 and use a new filter.
Am I missing anything here on the fuel system ? The car sat for over a year with 11 gallons of 92 in the tank, hoping all that happened is when i drained the tank some debris clogged the filter... Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
Verified spark.
Verified the leading coil
Verified the MSD box to the leading coil
Verified the plug wires
Verified the trailing coils, the unplugged trailing coils for the time being
then things got weird, I have only had 1 gallon fresh fuel in the tank when i have been trying to get it to start. The few times the engine started I had 40-45psi on the FPR gauge with the key in the ACC setting. Well yesterday when we were checking things over, it was cold (30f) and the FPR showed 25psi and again the motor would not start. After adjusting the FPR the psi dropped to 18psi, another adjustment and the FPR went to 10psi, and now its showing 0psi.
I'm going to remove the fuel filter and use a fuel hose to bypass the filter. Then check if the FPR shows correct psi. This should show if the filter is clogged or not. From here, if I have fuel psi I will install another new filter and try to start it up again. If I am not showing fuel psi after bypassing the filter, I will replace the walbro 255 and use a new filter.
Am I missing anything here on the fuel system ? The car sat for over a year with 11 gallons of 92 in the tank, hoping all that happened is when i drained the tank some debris clogged the filter... Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
11-23-11, 12:51 PM
#69
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this weekend. Me and the original builder of the car took a look.
Verified spark.
Verified the leading coil
Verified the MSD box to the leading coil
Verified the plug wires
Verified the trailing coils, the unplugged trailing coils for the time being
then things got weird, I have only had 1 gallon fresh fuel in the tank when i have been trying to get it to start. The few times the engine started I had 40-45psi on the FPR gauge with the key in the ACC setting. Well yesterday when we were checking things over, it was cold (30f) and the FPR showed 25psi and again the motor would not start. After adjusting the FPR the psi dropped to 18psi, another adjustment and the FPR went to 10psi, and now its showing 0psi.
I'm going to remove the fuel filter and use a fuel hose to bypass the filter. Then check if the FPR shows correct psi. This should show if the filter is clogged or not. From here, if I have fuel psi I will install another new filter and try to start it up again. If I am not showing fuel psi after bypassing the filter, I will replace the walbro 255 and use a new filter.
Am I missing anything here on the fuel system ? The car sat for over a year with 11 gallons of 92 in the tank, hoping all that happened is when i drained the tank some debris clogged the filter... Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
Verified spark.
Verified the leading coil
Verified the MSD box to the leading coil
Verified the plug wires
Verified the trailing coils, the unplugged trailing coils for the time being
then things got weird, I have only had 1 gallon fresh fuel in the tank when i have been trying to get it to start. The few times the engine started I had 40-45psi on the FPR gauge with the key in the ACC setting. Well yesterday when we were checking things over, it was cold (30f) and the FPR showed 25psi and again the motor would not start. After adjusting the FPR the psi dropped to 18psi, another adjustment and the FPR went to 10psi, and now its showing 0psi.
I'm going to remove the fuel filter and use a fuel hose to bypass the filter. Then check if the FPR shows correct psi. This should show if the filter is clogged or not. From here, if I have fuel psi I will install another new filter and try to start it up again. If I am not showing fuel psi after bypassing the filter, I will replace the walbro 255 and use a new filter.
Am I missing anything here on the fuel system ? The car sat for over a year with 11 gallons of 92 in the tank, hoping all that happened is when i drained the tank some debris clogged the filter... Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
11-23-11, 03:59 PM
#71
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I agree with above. normally you would tighten it to restrict the flow. just like an adjustable waistgate, bov, boost controller.... Drain all the fuel and flush the tank put a few gallons of fuel in it. at least 2
Last edited by jinxed4dub; 11-23-11 at 04:02 PM. Reason: I felt like it
11-23-11, 04:12 PM
#72
if you drained the tank before you added the 1 gallon then i agree with j9, 1 gallon is barely enough to wet the tip of the pump. 3 gallons in a bone dry tank is barely enough to submerge the whole sock.
a fuel pump can pump air, giving you false readings. if you don't have enough fuel in it and have been constantly running the pump you could have burned it up, if not then it isn't very happy at the moment.
1 gallon in a dry tank trying to solve a no start issue also isn't going to last very long even if the pump was close to being submerged. get a real gas can and put another 3-5 gallons in it. perhaps you can find some humor in it if it winds up being the issue. one time i pulled my UIM and injectors out because my car stalled out, spent an hour or so diagnosing that my tank was empty, of course i had the excuse that my gauge goes limp after about 1/3 of a tank and i really thought i had more gas than i really did...
a fuel pump can pump air, giving you false readings. if you don't have enough fuel in it and have been constantly running the pump you could have burned it up, if not then it isn't very happy at the moment.
1 gallon in a dry tank trying to solve a no start issue also isn't going to last very long even if the pump was close to being submerged. get a real gas can and put another 3-5 gallons in it. perhaps you can find some humor in it if it winds up being the issue. one time i pulled my UIM and injectors out because my car stalled out, spent an hour or so diagnosing that my tank was empty, of course i had the excuse that my gauge goes limp after about 1/3 of a tank and i really thought i had more gas than i really did...
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-23-11 at 04:17 PM.
11-23-11, 05:07 PM
#73
on saturday I added 3 more gallons, to bring the total near 4 in the tank. you guys are right I very well could have burned the fuel pump out by trying to pump it dry. got some things to check this weekend. I will update you all. Thanks for helping