notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

so on a GSLSE front cover the pointer should be sticking straight out ? News to me cause the pointer is bent down and swivels with the touch of your finger

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

yes they all stick straight out. the hole is wallowed(sp) out.


this s how the cas will look at tdc 0*

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

break the front pulley nut loose but nit al the way off and then have someone hold the clutch down while you take the bolt all the way out and set the key way to 9 o-clock. note where the pointer is pointing on the pulley and make a new mark on it. then install the pulley back on and torque to the proper torque. then set the cas to the image above and you will be ZEROED out. set and lock the timing on your ecu to 0*

twinkletoes

iTrader: (17)

Thats what the cas is supposed to look like at tdc???

Makes sense why my motor blew. lol I should kick my friends in the nuts..

Does it make differenece on standalone, stock ecu?

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

no tdc is tdc! this setup is what i use for locking timing on haltechs,microtechs, megasquirts......... now on a factory ecu the two tooth wheel will be a lil closer to the reluctor pickup.

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

engine still will not start

on another note, sorry your engine is blow up twinkle, that sucks big time buddy

twinkletoes

iTrader: (17)

I see. I had mine pretty straight across to the black boxes with the pickups. I thought my timing was spot on but mustve been off a bit.

Still!? Damn

Forreal. This next motor will be better. All new seals on a TII streetport core this time.

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

have you done a compression test, checked for inj pulse, spark.....

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

If you want to be sure of TDC (and your base timing), and also have a tool for future reference for this kind of thing, just pick up this pulley: http://www.racingbeat.com/RX7-1975-1...tem/11473.html

For $60, it's cheap assurance, will let you know what the timing marks on your current pulley really are, and will work on any 13B AFAIK. As long as you keep the clutch held in while you're swapping pulleys back and forth, you won't mess up your front stack.

Properly stabbing the CAS is irrelevant if your E-shaft isn't set to TDC. And no offense, but holding rods against the rotor face isn't exactly surgical precision... If you want a more proper way of finding TDC without removing the pulley see Lynn Hanover's post here: http://www.nopistons.com/forums/topi...rmal-question/

I use a 1/2" impact wrench to remove the front pulley bolt. Putting it back on will be another challenge...

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

Injectors work fine, ignition works fine. Compression is fine cause its a rebuild with good in spec parts. Fuel is being delivered fine.

Engine has started and ran very out of tune numerous times while i have been messing around with the timing. It will idle at 2,500-6,500 rpms because of horrible timing. I know timing is the issue because moving the cas will change the rpm and sound of the engine.

THE TIMING IS THE ONLY THING NOT WORKING FINE!!!!

Thanks for the link, not sure if I am smart enough to do those calculations. No offense I will not be buying new or changing pulleys, my whole set up is based on this pulley and I will not be wasting energy or time tracking down a matching water pump pulley and alt pulley and matching belt. No offense I will not be removing the bolt holding the pulley to the e-shaft. Please stop advising me to do this.

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

Well I'm not sure what to tell you, you've been given all the information you need to verify your base timing, and multiple ways to do it. What you do with it is up to you. And nobody said you have to use that RB pulley for good, it's just an accurate way to quickly get your engine to TDC, then swapping back to your old serpentine pulley (and then marking your serpentine pulley at true TDC without rotating or running the engine at all) Good luck

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

how's the timing signal at the ecu look? maybe your getting a rf interference somehwhere

Mazdero

DO NOT remove the front pulley without having someone hold the clutch in the entire time until the pulley is back on tight. You will mess up your engine.

Moving a CAS around arbitrarily is not going to tell you if the timing is off, as even a perfectly running car will have RPM change and engine noise change from moving that around.

If you hold the gas pedal at a steady rate do the rpm's still fluctuate? Have you verified your CAS is good? Is the TPS in spec? Did you verify timing is correct prior to starting the engine? You shouldn't really start a car until you verify the timing, especially with a standalone. unplug your injectors, or the fuse for your injectors and verify your timing is correct. while cranking If its fluctuating wildly, it is a CAS issue, Wiring, Electronic interference, or the PFC itself. If its steady then your issue is not the timing.

It doesn't sound like you have a datalogit and are working from the commander. The commander is super limited. You need to find someone with a datalogit so you can log into the PFC and see whats going on. For all you know you could just have a really crappy map.

For someone who is having such a hard time and has put so many hours into getting this right, you sure aren't willing to do much. At this point you should be willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

maybe its mis-interrpreted.
Its more of a issue with being comfortable with some of the ideas you guys are suggesting (read anything electrical I know 0% about). I'm not willing to do things out of my knowledge areas. If I'm not 100% comfortable, I will not be doing a task someone i don't know suggested, I'm kinda all alone here without any local shops or experts who know whats going on with this car. My car is full of parts off different gens and engines and everything is a Frankenstein hybrid here so its more difficult a situation then just putting stock parts back on and being done with it. I'm having a hard time convincing members here of this.

with that said, I may or may not have a datalogit, if I do where would it be found on the car ?
I have this rather large black box which runs the innovate wideband and then also a power FC ecu with the commander control. Last motor the ecu was tuned by a well know professional from TX, when the engine broke I was noticing that at idle the timing was around +15* when it normally read -1 or -2 at idle, this issue with the timing jumping to 15* happened randomly when i would hit a bump in the road or there was a physical jolt to the car. I have never touched the ECU since 2007 when it was dyno tuned, in feb 2010 when the engine broke I disconnected the battery until aug 2011 when the new engine was installed. Not sure if the ecu would lose the previous map from the power being disconnected for so long.

-don't worry, I will not be removing the front pulley, when i built the motor the guy who schooled me on how to do it said to never remove or loosen the main pulley. so I'm going to follow his instructions.

-when the engine was running, if I gave the engine rpm, the rpm would speed up and not drop to the rpm it was previous at before i touch the gas. the commander would read +30-37* and idle around 5k rpms without any throttle input. The turbo would glow purple too

-I have multiple tps's which i think i have verified. I honestly don'e understand how to test them and get lost in peoples write ups on how to test this part.

-the cas worked on the previous motor, no clue if it can go bad from not being used although that sounds unlikely.

-injectors have been professionally cleaned before they were installed. the commander recognizes the injectors duty cycle of around 10% when i crank and this falls to 2-3% after a second or two and the motor has not already fired up.

-again i have no clue how to verify timing. obviously this thread wouldn't exists if i knew how to look at the car and "verify timing"

-what is "fluctuation wildly when cranking" not sure what your referencing here. I have no idea if there is electrical interference either or if the wiring is bad. i have done my best to wire everything where it needs to be and all my wires are wrapped in electrical tape as a reinforcement.

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

standing in the front of the car, looking towards the rear. Which direction does the engine spin ? I assume it spins clockwise from my understanding of how the fuel goes in and exits the motor.

if were all agreeing the engine would rotate clock wise, which side of the pulley would this drawing be referencing?


which direction would the drawing be referencing ? hold the sheet of paper behind or in front of the motor. any thoughts

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

have you locked the timing and put a timing light on the motor yet to see wheres its even at?

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

no, what does locked mean ? I have never used a timing light.

Gregory Casimir

iTrader: (8)

hmmmm

notveryhappyjack

iTrader: (4)

you & me both

you & me both

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

so then how do you know the timing is off???? this is a very important thing to do. forget everything else and lock the timing at 0* in the powerfc( makes it so it does not change) and hook a timing light up to the l1 wire and point it at the crank ppulley and see where it lines up

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

ouch, well that might explain it.

had another local in about a week and a half ago who wanted me to go over everything for the car to be sure it was safe. we jumped in and went for a drive and i heard a popcorn maker under the hood and told him to drive easily back to the shop.

long story short his timing was about 40 degrees advanced beyond stock... surprisingly when i changed the timing the idle was still about the same, lagged a little more off the line but pulled better once in boost, mainly because the pre-ignition was gone. disaster averted and told him he was lucky.

Mazdero

a datalogit is an aftermarket interface for the PFC that allows access to all the maps in the ecu with full adjustment. it does not come with your PFC, it is something that is purchased separately. If your commander is connected, then you don't have it as it plugs in where the commander plugs into the PFC.

If your timing changed with bumps, you have bad wiring. you need to get the wiring fixed. A bump should have no effect on your timing.

Fluctuating wildly is if you check the timing on the pulley with a timing light, and you see the marks jumping around, or randomly you lose the mark. It doesn't appear like you have checked timing with a timing light so really you can't say your timing is off, you don't know. Go get a cheapo timing light from your auto parts store or sears or something and hook the power and ground clips to your battery. Take the other clip that when you press on the end swivels up and has a hole in the center, and place the spark plug wire for the front rotor bottom spark plug inside. Start the car, then take the light, aim it at your crank pulley and pull the trigger. The light will flash, and you will see a single timing mark on the pulley. best thing to do is set your timing in the PFC to 0, but i'm not sure if the commander has the ability to do this. If you haven't verified the timing with a light, you are shooting in the dark.

Exactly

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If you have a datalogit you can set your leading and trailing to 0 degrees.

You need to buy one. It is 100% unavoidable in your situation. Myself and cewrx7r1 run a power fc tuning group and I can tell you that you must get one. I know it's money and all but you can't diagnose much without it.

jinxed4dub

iTrader: (7)

maybe cas is bad and was the original issue or the wiring, knock sensor, and yes map would probably be lost without power

PvillKnight7

iTrader: (16)

I didn't read every post in this thread but it seems you're working too hard/ over-thinking. I wouldn't bother trying to figure out the exact timing of the engine. It's unnecessary.

Here is what I do. Take the cover off the CAS, mark it like I've shown in the picture and insert it so the dot lines up with a number. When you're close, you will hear the engine trying to start. It might not start but try rotating the CAS clockwise and counterclockwise until it does. Now you have a starting point for tuning.

If the engine doesnt sound like it's trying to start at any of those CAS positions...something is wrong. Check coils, spark plugs, plug wires, CAS signal. The easiest method is to visually verify spark at the plug by removing each plug and grounding it to the shock tower while you crank the engine or spin the CAS.

The L1 coil wire goes to the lower plug on the front housing (closest to the front of the car). T1 coil wire goes to the top plug on the front housing.

If it runs but not well, try re-stabbing the CAS 180 degrees.