Any body have Gotham's turbos kit?
10-27-04, 12:39 PM
#26
lol yes my car did make low numbers. The motor was loseing compression and it was over 100 in the garage. Im not giveing u guys excuss's or anyhting but when its runing strong again ill get u some dyno sheets.. and yes we did do 2 runs i was at about 13.5-14 psi and first race i got the jump and won second he got the jump and won.
10-27-04, 02:26 PM
#27
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Hi Joe... can you post your dyno sheet on your last runs.. didnt you have a new ported engine in there too?
Originally Posted by Kyro-2
lol yes my car did make low numbers. The motor was loseing compression and it was over 100 in the garage. Im not giveing u guys excuss's or anyhting but when its runing strong again ill get u some dyno sheets.. and yes we did do 2 runs i was at about 13.5-14 psi and first race i got the jump and won second he got the jump and won.
10-31-04, 08:58 PM
#30
I won't let go
Seems that I need to keep up. I heard about this tonight. Anyway, we did two runs from a 70 or so roll up to maybe 120-130. We split them depending on who got the jump. Granted there were only two, but I'd say that meant we were even matched. We were both hitting 15 psi. I'm getting 85 and 90 psi front/rear on a stock port reman with about 30k on it. I'd like to run again, but I'm now down for the season. When I tune for higher boost, we'll do it again and see. 
11-01-04, 04:00 PM
#32
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Which part doesn't make sense? the part where he said he raced the other person with the GT3540 that was running 15-16psi of boost with only 13.5psi of boost or the car made 43xrwhp @17psi?
Originally Posted by AlienHead
So from what Im reading a car with supposedly 60-70more hp couldnt pull away? I smell a fish. It makes no sense.
11-01-04, 05:07 PM
#33
I won't let go
?? Where did 13.5 come from? He was running 15 at the time or so I was led to believe. (Edit: I see the post up there) Eh. No matter.
I'm very happy with the kit.
to A-Spec.
I'm very happy with the kit.
to A-Spec.
Last edited by Railgun69; 11-01-04 at 05:09 PM.
11-01-04, 05:11 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by pluto
Which part doesn't make sense? the part where he said he raced the other person with the GT3540 that was running 15-16psi of boost with only 13.5psi of boost or the car made 43xrwhp @17psi?
Originally Posted by Railgun69
We split them depending on who got the jump. Granted there were only two, but I'd say that meant we were even matched. We were both hitting 15 psi.
Originally Posted by Railgun69
on a stock port reman with about 30k on it.
Originally Posted by Rx-7$4$me
436 at 17psi
11-01-04, 05:56 PM
#35
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well, im happy with my results:
this was in may when i picked it up. see chart in 3rd gen dyno results, page 2
474rwhp 370tq
19psi
large gotham racing streetport
stage 2 gotham racing manifold/twin tial 38mm wastegates
to4r w/1.00 a/r divided
3" downpipe
greddy 2 row fmic
tial bov
550/1600cc injectors
sx fpr
powerfc and dataloggit
supra tt pump
pettit resonated mp
gotham racing titanium catback
pwr radiator
hks twin power
techedge diy o2 wideband
exedy twin disc clutch
gotham racing pulley kit
STEVE KAN TUNING
http://www.gothamracing.com/pics/St...urbo%20kit1.jpg
this was in may when i picked it up. see chart in 3rd gen dyno results, page 2
474rwhp 370tq
19psi
large gotham racing streetport
stage 2 gotham racing manifold/twin tial 38mm wastegates
to4r w/1.00 a/r divided
3" downpipe
greddy 2 row fmic
tial bov
550/1600cc injectors
sx fpr
powerfc and dataloggit
supra tt pump
pettit resonated mp
gotham racing titanium catback
pwr radiator
hks twin power
techedge diy o2 wideband
exedy twin disc clutch
gotham racing pulley kit
STEVE KAN TUNING
http://www.gothamracing.com/pics/St...urbo%20kit1.jpg
Last edited by spoolin; 11-01-04 at 05:59 PM.
11-01-04, 05:58 PM
#36
I won't let go
Ok. Let me point something else out here. He ran a 12.6 @ something like 125 at 18 psi if I'm not mistaken right?
Let's see if I can remember here. Steve, maybe you can remember a little. My brother ran a 12.8 @ I can't remember what on stock twins with a clutch, akimoto SMIC, Power FC, I can't remember what exhaust and I think at 12 psi. I'm sure there were a few things, but nothing else that would be a major contribution to that. Maybe some of you remember. First RR in Indy. BB FD. He was in the "finals" but had a crappy run that first round. I'm trying to remember if he had a fresh motor at that point. I don't think he did though. He's working on getting the slip to post. There may be an issue of driver ability here. I'm not trying to knock you Joe, but maybe I just handled that other run better.
Alienhead...care to explain the poorly designed kit thing? Based on your own observation that doesn't seem to be the case does it?
Last edited by Railgun69; 11-01-04 at 06:14 PM.
11-01-04, 07:01 PM
#38
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If both were running the same boost level, I agreed that Joe's car should not have any problems pulling ahead since he makes more hp. The thing was that Joe was only running 13.5psi of boost when railguns was running 15psi of boost. If I remembered correctly, Joe's transmission was on its way out or he doesn't shift fast (can't remembered which). Besides, who said the 35R turbo kit was poorly designed? I don't recalled saying that, The GT40R turbo kit on the other hand is a different story. Also, how come a fast spooling GT35R turbo kit with a stock ported engine couldn't out spool a ported engine with a 3 row I/C car?
Originally Posted by AlienHead
The part where he says this
or this
now this supposed
Should have no problem pulling on a 35*@15lbs car. especially if they are the SAME car. So unless Im missing something how is a car with a ported motor and a "suposedly" better desigened kit not pull on a stock reman with the poorly designed kit??????
or this
now this supposed
Should have no problem pulling on a 35*@15lbs car. especially if they are the SAME car. So unless Im missing something how is a car with a ported motor and a "suposedly" better desigened kit not pull on a stock reman with the poorly designed kit??????
11-01-04, 07:01 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Railgun69
Alienhead...care to explain the poorly designed kit thing? Based on your own observation that doesn't seem to be the case does it?
I notice on gothams site that it says ther manifold design would outperform a ballbearing setup. I would agree with you on the driver if it were from a stop but not from roll on the highway. He should be pulling you even if we give you benefit of doubt and say 360hp and he is 400hp instead on lower boost.
11-01-04, 07:25 PM
#40
I won't let go
Originally Posted by pluto
Also, how come a fast spooling GT35R turbo kit with a stock ported engine couldn't out spool a ported engine with a 3 row I/C car?
I was going to make a comment about the boost and porting differences earlier, but I guess I will now. At what point do we theoretically become even then? I don't want to get too into it, nor am I picking a fight by any means.
So I've got stock ports hitting 15 psi. Say I'm pushing 350. He's running 13.5 on some kind of street port. You'd [Alienhead] say he's pushing 400? Unfortunately we're comparing apples to oranges now. Different motors, different turbos. Apparently the general consensus is that the GR63 kit should wail on the 35R kit. Am I way off base or is that really what it sounds like?
My input shaft bearing and 4th synchro is going too. I don't know what's with his tranny, but I think we're in the same boat there.
What other contributing factors do we have? He's been having some ignition issues. I've got some extra weight removal, though not much (no A/C and PS).
I'm tuned relatively consertively as far as AFRs go, but it's tuned very well. Pulls hard and smooth all the way up. No breakup at all. I've been in a ride in his just after he got it and incidentally, just before he had all his problems. Between the two, the butt dyno didn't notice any big cifferences one way or the other.
11-01-04, 07:36 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by pluto
If both were running the same boost level, I agreed that Joe's car should not have any problems pulling ahead since he makes more hp. The thing was that Joe was only running 13.5psi of boost when railguns was running 15psi of boost.
Originally Posted by Railgun69
?? Where did 13.5 come from? He was running 15 at the time or so I was led to believe.
Originally Posted by pluto
Besides, who said the 35R turbo kit was poorly designed? I don't recalled saying that, The GT40R turbo kit on the other hand is a different story.
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/new-gt40r-dyno-numbers-355332/page5/
Originally Posted by pluto
Also, how come a fast spooling GT35R turbo kit with a stock ported engine couldn't out spool a ported engine with a 3 row I/C car?
11-01-04, 08:27 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Railgun69
From where is this reference coming?
So I've got stock ports hitting 15 psi. Say I'm pushing 350. He's running 13.5 on some kind of street port. You'd [Alienhead] say he's pushing 400? Unfortunately we're comparing apples to oranges now. Different motors, different turbos. Apparently the general consensus is that the GR63 kit should wail on the 35R kit. Am I way off base or is that really what it sounds like?
My input shaft bearing and 4th synchro is going too. I don't know what's with his tranny, but I think we're in the same boat there.
What other contributing factors do we have? He's been having some ignition issues. I've got some extra weight removal, though not much (no A/C and PS).
I'm tuned relatively consertively as far as AFRs go, but it's tuned very well. Pulls hard and smooth all the way up. No breakup at all. I've been in a ride in his just after he got it and incidentally, just before he had all his problems. Between the two, the butt dyno didn't notice any big cifferences one way or the other.
So I've got stock ports hitting 15 psi. Say I'm pushing 350. He's running 13.5 on some kind of street port. You'd [Alienhead] say he's pushing 400? Unfortunately we're comparing apples to oranges now. Different motors, different turbos. Apparently the general consensus is that the GR63 kit should wail on the 35R kit. Am I way off base or is that really what it sounds like?
My input shaft bearing and 4th synchro is going too. I don't know what's with his tranny, but I think we're in the same boat there.
What other contributing factors do we have? He's been having some ignition issues. I've got some extra weight removal, though not much (no A/C and PS).
I'm tuned relatively consertively as far as AFRs go, but it's tuned very well. Pulls hard and smooth all the way up. No breakup at all. I've been in a ride in his just after he got it and incidentally, just before he had all his problems. Between the two, the butt dyno didn't notice any big cifferences one way or the other.
11-01-04, 08:50 PM
#43
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I think you are confusing yourself on the whole thing. Joe's car made approximately 430whp@17psi. If he was running 13.5psi, using your forumula of say 10rwhp per psi of boost, that's 35rwhp less which should put joe's car to around 390ish rwhp. 10rwhp/psi is actually a pretty conservative # for low boost unless you're running at high boost (25+psi). Most turbos out there generates/flows best at lower boost level and slowly become more restricted as you go up in boost. let's say we use 15rwhp per psi since it seems like that's what the hp/psi I have seen on the turbo kit. so at 13.5psi, the car is probably making around 360rwhp - 375rwhp. Which is pretty close to Christian's car hp estimation. The extra 10-15rwhp hp difference won't be that much noticable and will depending upon the driver skill. To say that there is at least 40-60rwhp is totally false at the boost level both were running.
Originally Posted by AlienHead
my point is even if we lower his boost we cant get rid of the portjob, the cars are very similar in size and wieght even if we get rid of the tiny wieght difference we cant get rid of the (at a conservative level) 40?hp more. I heard somewhere that 1lb of boost roughly equal to 10hp lets be nice and say 20hp that times 1.5lb difference in boost equals 30hp? Im far from really smart guy and maybe Im wrong but that would still puts him at roughly 47-57 more hp he should be pulling you in even if behind unless he has some ungodly huge wing on the car?
11-01-04, 09:28 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by pluto
I think you are confusing yourself on the whole thing. Joe's car made approximately 430whp@17psi. If he was running 13.5psi, using your forumula of say 10rwhp per psi of boost, that's 35rwhp less which should put joe's car to around 390ish rwhp. 10rwhp/psi is actually a pretty conservative # for low boost unless you're running at high boost (25+psi). Most turbos out there generates/flows best at lower boost level and slowly become more restricted as you go up in boost. let's say we use 15rwhp per psi since it seems like that's what the hp/psi I have seen on the turbo kit. so at 13.5psi, the car is probably making around 360rwhp - 375rwhp. Which is pretty close to Christian's car hp estimation. The extra 10-15rwhp hp difference won't be that much noticable and will depending upon the driver skill. To say that there is at least 40-60rwhp is totally false at the boost level both were running.
now if we go by what was said in a diferent way you just said the point I was making all along.
Originally Posted by pluto
Joe's car made approximately 430whp@17psi. If he was running 13.5psi, using your forumula of say 10rwhp per psi of boost, that's 35rwhp less which should put joe's car to around 390ish rwhp.
which is what I siad here
Originally Posted by AlienHead
the cars are very similar in size and wieght even if we get rid of the tiny wieght difference we cant get rid of the (at a conservative level) 40?hp more.
11-01-04, 09:50 PM
#45
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Wow!?! Maybe you can point me to any rx7 that made 400rwhp at 13.5psi of boost......
On Spoolin's car, we made 392rwhp@14psi of boost, that is with a bigger turbo and bigger port.
honestly, I don't think anybody claimed Joe was making 43xrwhp when he raced christian with the exception of poweraxel who keeps bringing up the 43xrwhp #'s.
If both were running the same boost, joe should have pulled christian, with Joe running less boost, its hard to say who could win since the car with more boost makes more torque in the mid range than the car with less boost, even if the hp is higher, it would take longer to make up the difference.
On Spoolin's car, we made 392rwhp@14psi of boost, that is with a bigger turbo and bigger port.
honestly, I don't think anybody claimed Joe was making 43xrwhp when he raced christian with the exception of poweraxel who keeps bringing up the 43xrwhp #'s.
If both were running the same boost, joe should have pulled christian, with Joe running less boost, its hard to say who could win since the car with more boost makes more torque in the mid range than the car with less boost, even if the hp is higher, it would take longer to make up the difference.
Originally Posted by AlienHead
confusing myself? 437-10hp per lb difference (17- 13.5=3.5) 3.5x10=35 so 437minus 35 is 402???? 402 - 350/360=42/52hp difference that is saying as you said conservative 10hp at these low numbers
now if we go by what was said in a diferent way you just said the point I was making all along.
exacty he is making around 390 sounds more like it not 437 I just find it hard to belive he isn't pulling him. even at 390 how is that not 30-40hp more.
which is what I siad here
now if we go by what was said in a diferent way you just said the point I was making all along.
exacty he is making around 390 sounds more like it not 437 I just find it hard to belive he isn't pulling him. even at 390 how is that not 30-40hp more.
which is what I siad here
11-01-04, 10:26 PM
#46
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ok since im the "one that keeps on bringing this up.".....
Lets make this simple comparision..
Christians car: stock port motor & GT35/40
Joes car: ported motor, bigger turbo, tuning, 43x @ 17 psi etc..
Christians car pulled away on the highway..
BTW: our of repsect to another shop and the owners cars were talking about im gonna to stop posting to this thread. Joe and Christian are both good guys!
Could you find Joes dyno sheets for him and post them up?
Lets make this simple comparision..
Christians car: stock port motor & GT35/40
Joes car: ported motor, bigger turbo, tuning, 43x @ 17 psi etc..
Christians car pulled away on the highway..
BTW: our of repsect to another shop and the owners cars were talking about im gonna to stop posting to this thread. Joe and Christian are both good guys!
Could you find Joes dyno sheets for him and post them up?
Last edited by Poweraxel; 11-02-04 at 09:21 AM.
11-01-04, 11:10 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by pluto
Wow!?! Maybe you can point me to any rx7 that made 400rwhp at 13.5psi of boost......
Originally Posted by pluto
honestly, I don't think anybody claimed Joe was making 43xrwhp when he raced christian with the exception of poweraxel who keeps bringing up the 43xrwhp #'s.
who was it who said 436@17lbs
Originally Posted by Rx-7$4$me
He made 436 at 17psi with ambient room temperature over 100 degrees massive heatsoak,and a motor losing compression VERY quickly due to a completely failed OMP while tuning.
I dont think he ever said that's what Joe was runing at the time.
Originally Posted by pluto
If both were running the same boost, joe should have pulled christian, with Joe running less boost, its hard to say who could win since the car with more boost makes more torque in the mid range than the car with less boost, even if the hp is higher, it would take longer to make up the difference.
11-04-04, 04:28 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by Poweraxel
ok since im the "one that keeps on bringing this up.".....
Lets make this simple comparision..
Christians car: stock port motor & GT35/40
Joes car: ported motor, bigger turbo, tuning, 43x @ 17 psi etc..
Christians car pulled away on the highway..
BTW: our of repsect to another shop and the owners cars were talking about im gonna to stop posting to this thread. Joe and Christian are both good guys!
Could you find Joes dyno sheets for him and post them up?
Lets make this simple comparision..
Christians car: stock port motor & GT35/40
Joes car: ported motor, bigger turbo, tuning, 43x @ 17 psi etc..
Christians car pulled away on the highway..
BTW: our of repsect to another shop and the owners cars were talking about im gonna to stop posting to this thread. Joe and Christian are both good guys!
Could you find Joes dyno sheets for him and post them up?
Christians car has no tuning ?
Joe also has a 3 row fmic, which is bringing his spool time up at least 3-500 rpms.
11-04-04, 04:31 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by AlienHead
wow! maybe you can explain how your not getting the point I made even after you made it yourself he's probaly making 390 not 437 puting him at the 355-75range that would make them about equal +- 10/15hp and goes back to the first point that is a weak 437.
who was it who said 436@17lbs
Poweraxel just asked for a dyno sheet??? to confirm what was stated by Rx-7$4$me
I dont think he ever said that's what Joe was runing at the time.
agreed and according to (at the very least) one party they were running the same boost guess we will have to wait and see just seems fishy to me!!!
who was it who said 436@17lbs
Poweraxel just asked for a dyno sheet??? to confirm what was stated by Rx-7$4$me
I dont think he ever said that's what Joe was runing at the time.
agreed and according to (at the very least) one party they were running the same boost guess we will have to wait and see just seems fishy to me!!!
I stated in a previous post that joe was having boost controll issues, and was running somewhere in teh range of13-13.5 psi.
Poweraxle brought up the fact that christians motor was F'ed up at the time, which is false, as Christians motor was perfectly fine.
This is stupid regardless, as I said in my post that was deleted, there is no reason to be provoking tension between two CUSTOMERS. And yes, its already started.
11-04-04, 04:35 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Railgun69
Ok. Let me point something else out here. He ran a 12.6 @ something like 125 at 18 psi if I'm not mistaken right?
Let's see if I can remember here. Steve, maybe you can remember a little. My brother ran a 12.8 @ I can't remember what on stock twins with a clutch, akimoto SMIC, Power FC, I can't remember what exhaust and I think at 12 psi. I'm sure there were a few things, but nothing else that would be a major contribution to that. Maybe some of you remember. First RR in Indy. BB FD. He was in the "finals" but had a crappy run that first round. I'm trying to remember if he had a fresh motor at that point. I don't think he did though. He's working on getting the slip to post. There may be an issue of driver ability here. I'm not trying to knock you Joe, but maybe I just handled that other run better.
Alienhead...care to explain the poorly designed kit thing? Based on your own observation that doesn't seem to be the case does it?
It is the driver issue. Joe was averaging like a 2.4 to 2.5 60' . Joes car is not very easy to launch. He was using street tires, on a nice and cold day. He was also suffering from numerous shifting problems. There are way to many factors to use this in a comparative stanpoint.