What kind of ignition system are you guys running? I have searched and searched and no one has the details of their ignition system posted. I have a big single and I want something better than a HKS twin power. So can you big hp guys tell me what brand and the number of coils and amps you use.

 

What are your power goals? Boost pressure? What fuel? Water and/or methanol injection?

Depending on your response a CDI may not be necessary. A good inductive coil setup can be less expensive and much easier to install and get running properly.

That said, do a search for MSD, M&W, Autronic 500R, and Crane and you'll get a good dose of information. Various MSD boxes are probably the most popular (combinations of 6A and/or DIS-2/4, 10 series box for very high output) with their Blaster and HVC coils being popular. The M&W Pro-14R is a great box. It can run all four channels of the 2-rotor engine in one compact box. Something none of the MSD boxes can do. The M&W is a slightly more expensive option but their known for their quality and performance. The M&W CDI coils work great with their box. The M&W can also be configured for very high output and dual mode output. The Autronic 500 R is in the same boat with the M&W. Four channel capable, fairly expensive, very high quality. The Crane boxes and coils would fall in line with the MSD stuff as far as price and capability. When properly setup any of the above combinations will work and all have been proven at high output levels.

 

I run a T04s with a supra pump, 850s and 1680s, kenne bell boost pump, aeromotive FPR, Snow performance dual water meth kit, and looking for 450whp.

Should i just run two amps and two coils for the leading plugs and leave the trailing stock?

 

I would have to say with your setup and power goals the hks twin power is an awsome option. I have used it on a very similar setup. Kinda wonder why you are trying to stay away?

I am personaly running bmep/pantara coils with a autronix 500r setup, looking for 650hp running e85. Big turbo dual pumps motec etc. Not running yet, i know a few have done this with great success.

 

The twin power just increases the length of time the spark fires not the intensity. I am just afraid that with the water/meth injection i will need a stronger spark at 15 or 20psi. Also the twin power is around 300 and you can piece together a much stronger MSD or Crane system off ebay for half that. I have searched and searched and no one has a write up on here detailing how to. I need to know what wires go where, do i need one amp per plug, what type of amp and coils should i use, and should i upgrade the trailing or just leave them stock. Thanks for the input.

 

I always thought the twin power fires multiple sparks at low RPM and then a stronger spark at higher RPM.

If your trying to do it on the cheap, I don't think your going to be able to build a better system for less then the twin power. And the fact that the twin power is plug and play makes it that much more attractive. If you can though, good job.

Hey C. Ludwig, is there any ignition better system that works with the powerfc and wastespark. Would the twin power no longer be useful or would you still be able to use it for an even better spark?

thewird

 

I'm using the twin power + stock everything. Its working great. For 450 wheel, its all you need.

 

The twin power is a good unit but you can surely build something better. It's price accordingly...

 

^ True story, 500 rwhp here.

However, this year I wanted to venture into 25-30 psi with a lot of water and I think I'm already close to the limits of my ignition system.

thewird

 

I started running in the 25 psi range as well at the end of last year and I think i was hitting the limits as well. However, it could have also been the cold weather and methanol.

 

I'm running wtr/meth 50/50 and pump gas with only 350rwhp and the hks twin power did nothing for me I had terrible break up(overpriced imho). I switched to an used msd 6a,it was free to me and some cheap egv plugs and it worked alot better. I ran a new mallory 6al box for a few days it worked great for eliminating break-up but quit working all together after only short run time so I returned it. Think I'm gonna try the msd 6al2 next with the 2-step, my 2 cents

 

Id be looking at your tune and ohming out your coils if you were breaking up with only 350whp.

Im making right around 500whp with a Twin Power on stock coils running 550ccs of water with 24psi boost on pump.

 

+1, probably the coils. Tuned a GT35R @ 18-19 PSi running 700cc's of 50/50 injection at high 10 AFR and had no problems. Also, my own car running a 500R-SP @ 20 PSi with 900cc's of water and had no problems as well.

theiwrd

 

The results with the Twin-Power are hard to argue with, but like is mentioned above, you need stock coils that in good shape to maximize it's effectiveness. At this stage of the game, how many original FD coils are still in good shape?

IMO, inductive is the way to go if you can get a coil that works. I've had great luck with the Mercury inductive coils. They're an OE application on 2-stroke outboards, so they've been designed for a quick charge time. The LSx coils are popular with a lot of crowds, but in the rotary world the charge time they require creates an issue; double so with an ECU that only works in waste spark like the PFC. The Mercury coils reach around 90% saturation in 3 mS, making them a good candidate for use with a rotary, waste spark system. I've used them in a couple cars at boost levels up to 24 psi, 500+ whp, with 50/50 and straight meth injection without issue. I've seen them light mixtures down to 10:1 under load without issue. The only drawback is their size. They're fairly bulky and packaging them in an FD with AC and PS is a job. They're priced at around $300 for a set of 4.

Again, the Twin-Power is certainly the easiest option. If you have issues with the Twin-Power at <500 whp you probably have OE coils that aren't in very good condition or some other issue. But I would try inductive before going to a full boat CDI system at that power level. Seen CDIs create as many problems as they ever solved when they are poorly installed or setup.

 

After asking my question, I kind of went back and re-read old threads so I have a little more knowledge about them now. When its time to upgrade my ignition system, I'm thinking the M&W 14R CDI and coils would be where I would want to venture into. But this would only be if its fully compatible with the powerfc which I'm still unsure about. I posed the question in another thread.

thewird

 

The M&W Pro 14R is compatible with the PFC. Would still run in wastespark, but that's not an issue with a CDI since dwell time is so short.

 

Would this be a serious ignition upgrade where I no longer have to worry about my ignition, even for high boost 30 psi with a lot of water?

thewird

 

I am sure the HKS increases the spark intensity.... I could be wrong. I personaly dont like the msd set up, the AEM twin fire is way buggy and I have not used crane. I would say if you want the best spark out the M&w pro 14r is the best that and autronix 500r same basic thing.

 

Yes. Will fill those needs nicely. For those with higher boost ideas and/or methanol, M&W can build the boxes with selective output. The Pro 14R has a 115 mJ output; the Drag 4 has a 250 mJ output but will heat up and activate the overheat protection and shut down if driven for extended periods of time. The box can be configured to run at 115 mJ output under normal loads and then switch over at a given boost pressure for output on demand. Believe Enzo is setting Ernie T with a box like this. More expensive, but it's forgetaboutit type of ignition power, and in a relatively small, easier to install package.

 

Is 115 mJ not enough juice for high boost with AI? I use my car mostly for road course so overheating is definitely not an option. Any idea what the stock oils and twin power put out? Even if its a guess hehe.

thewird

 

The standard 115 setup will do great with AI and 30 psi.

 

^ Thank you, what I wanted to hear. Added to my list . What type of deal could you give me with the CDI + coils? Is there anything else I would need?

thewird

 

The dynatek is by far the best street setup out their at this point in time.

189mj per coil through one box.(can control 2 coils at a time).

The crane does not match this and neither does the M&W or the motec cdi units.

Thats what i would go for.

In saying that the next best unit in my opinion is the crane hi-6 units.

 

What exactly do you need for an aftermarket ignition setup? I have just "finished" my single build and I am not sure if I need to upgrade my ignition or not. Streetported 35r. I am using a smaller hotside for response but I do not want to run out of spark. Car will be tuned with 600cc of (80% water / 20 % meth) injected. I have a twin power that I got for cheap but the light on the box does not come on. I believe it to be faulty and will more than likely need to replace it. I really have no idea where to start.

 

why don't you just wait until you start having spark blowout before you do anything. You'd be surprised what the HKS twin power can do.