RICE RACING

Posted this in the FC section (cause of my new car), thought it would be of interest here too.

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/fo...pic.php?t=27778

Are any of you boys doing this already ?

Will be upgrading my FC very soon to this spec, will update results soon as finished.

P.S. Still have the other beast, this is just to get me through till I finish it

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Link no worky!

razorback

i want the link to worky...

sounds very interesting..

RICE RACING

http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/for...ic.php?t=27778

Try this, sorry

razorback

that one works. im interested on how to get 400 hp out of the stock turbo..

PureSephiroth

that's the stock turbo housing but different components correct? That's kind of like cheating isn't it

Maxthe7man

Rice, I saw alot of people pushing the hybrided turbos to the max at shops in Japan, Knightsports i think has done the most r&d, as well as I-feelin on using stock components altered for power gains...
The knightsports hybrid uses the familiar garrett cover and wheel on a S5 turbo, all their numbers are from using a car with a huge fmic, running 100 oct fuel, at 20 psi, and they just scratch the 300 rwhp mark, they had alot of dyno charts on display with all their products , with their fmic on a stock s5 they had a chart showing 280 rwhp, so it looks like the turbine is still the limiting factor on that setup, and when you clip it to overcome the turbine backpressure, as I recollect from peoples posts on the BNR stage 4 or whatever that was that was clipped, the spool characteristics start taking on those of a T-100...
All the charts have I seen on the hybrid seem to have a power peak at about 5500, that either stays flat or just falls from there, well short of the powerband a 13bt is capable of....
I think adding an external gate is not bad way of bleeding off boost and backpressure, although a local guy here with an s5 hybrid(60-1) doesn't have any boost control issues at all, but his power ceiling is always 265-270 rwhp, regardless of boost, now we are gonna add a fmic to acheive some density recovery which may give us a tad more power, but I think the overal power curve will stay the same again because of the back pressure...
If you bore the stock turbine out to accept a p-trim wheel, then fab up an external gate on the stock system, then add a hybrid front cover, I think your monetary output would be less just buying a full t04 setup... Max

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Put pics of my old turbo on the cross posted thread in 2nd gen section.

As mentioned there it is now upgraded w/ clipped "P" trim wheel instead of clipped "O" trim and divider in the 60mm WG.

I have WG set to 17psi, but I can't keep the damn turbo under 20psi. The last (pictured combo) had reasonable (2-3 psi) boost creep up to 7,000rpm but above that boost creep inceased rapidly...

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=274013

Carl Byck

FWIW the Factory backed TIIs that raced in 89-91 made ~400rwhp, There are two of those cars floating around somewhere... They had stock ICs. I have seen them in person, they are not stock turbos(internally), though they were supposed to be. imagine that factory backed "rule bending"

Maxthe7man

I have an article on the Mazdaspeed TII's in an old R&T, is that the same car? They pegged the hp at 225 in that article, thanks to a boost controller , better intake, exhaust, and upgraded injectors...Max

Cheers!

scan it!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

which ones? were they showroom stock? the imsa gto cars are 3-4 rotors

Carl Byck

This was the car that Dave Jolley ran, not positive of the class( I think it was a step up from SSB), I saw the car at Sears point in the mid 90s, he was selling it for 25000.00 with about 50000.00 worth of spares. I bought a ton of stuff from him, the statements regarding output were his. He was the factory driver for two years, sorry I do not remember the class, however he was quite proud of the stock look VS output... It would not suprise me to see a factory team publish substantially lower than actual output(ALA Skyline). Carl

Carl Byck

BTW, this was a white and blue car with more roll cage than any car I have ever seen to present.

Maxthe7man

Cheers, I have way to many car mags to find it at the spur of the moment, but when I do see it again, I will scan it, its a very interesting article..
The car I am thinking about went on to become a test mule for Eibach, it was parked for several years until some racer found it in storage, bought it and started campaigning it on the west coast...I will have a dig for the mag today if I have time..Max

Cheers!

225 hp would be like 10+ psi on the stock turbo no?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

hmm neat

Ranzo

I have this turbo on one of my FC's. Rmagic and Pan Speed both sell this turbo. I have used many High Flows on my car in the past and I can tell you that the Knight Sports High flow is not so impressive.

This Garret turbo pictured on the other forum that Rice gave us has a 15deg cut back and 360deg bearings. I stumbled on to this turbine when I was putting an engine together for my Girl. For a couple of days I thought it was a stock turbine....LOL Anyway to make a long story short I had a converstation with the owner of Rmagic. At the time I had the Turbonetics compressor high flow which is noticeably larger than this garret. I was curious as to why they offered it with a 15 deg cutback but my "larger" hi flow did not.
He explained to me that the "smaller" garret was actually a better turbine and more efficient. The garret turbine with a small sideport, front mount intercooler and properly sized injectors is capaple of 400hp.

The normal setup for that turbine is a small side port, stock intercooler and stock injectors yields 349hp. With upgraded cooler and injectors it can approach 400hp.

The Knight sports and other high flows with a front mount cooler sideport and Power FC setting gets about 380hp. My personal best is 362hp.

I can tell you from driving my girls car that the response on that garret is awesome! the powerband is pretty broad and is definatley in the 300hp range....I have yet to dyno it yet though. Her car has a stock s5 engine and this turbo with a Rmagic tuned ECU.

R magic used to sell Turbonetics High flows with a External wastegate mounted onto the turbine housing. Those made 400hp pretty easily but He has opted for this garret when it comes to hi flows....

bobybeach

Just thought id bring this post back to life....

Im having my s4 fc turbine housing machined at the moment here in Auckland to accept a garrett to4b p trim turbo with 54mm inducer, this to4b garret with its original 1.15ar housing produced 350rwhp on fc at 12psi, so im looking to see 300rwhp+ on stock manifold at same boost level.
**** it looks and fits in original position, just the cover needed a litle tickle with the die grinder to clear the manifold. But otherwise looks like stock set up just missing the water hoses.

Carl Byck

Yes, one of the cars became the Eibach car, but I watched the car at the track(almost bought it), it was very fast, way faster than my (at the time) 273rwhp Hybrid. Carl

bobybeach

hows this for a high flowed s4 turbo? This was orinaly a common as muck to4b V trim wheel with p trim turbine. This has been mated to my s4 hitachi turbine housing so will bolt back to original manifold. im hoping will flow 300-350rwhp the v trim compressor is flow rated at 43lbs/min. the only real visual diference is the slight increase in compressor housing size and no water lines, but to most this will apprear to be a stock turbo.

SPOautos

Bryan just made some changes to his BNR stage 4 2nd gen upgrade. At 17psi someone made 402rwhp with it a day or so ago. Its brand new and this was the first car to try it out after he made changes. It bolts up and looks just like stock except for the bigger compressor wheel.

Bryan called me yesterday all excited about it. I dont know all the specifics because I dont keep up with the 2nd gen upgrades really....but if you guys want more specifics I can get them.

His customer is supposed to be sending Bryan the dyno sheet in the next day or so. I dont know if its someone off the board or not.....

Stephen

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Any specifics on the changes to the stage 4 hybrid?

I have a clipped "P" trim stage 4 and I was asking Bryan if he would put in my slightly larger minor diameter GTQ exhaust wheel and GT compressor wheel I have laying around. He wasn't into it at the time

I am interested in what he considered a worthy update!

I would definitely believe those HP figures based on the injector duty cycles and AF I had to run- not to mention the traction issues and beating a quite modded WRX STi from a roll- pulling away the entire time and just blasting him when I hooked up momentarily in 3rd.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I never had much success with hybrid stockers...the builder couldnt get the compressor wheel nut to stay in place for much more than a few hundred miles it seems. Even when they did work right, they spooled like ****. I once raced an equivalently modded t2 with stock turbo and he put 1 car on me before the hybrid spooled into useable boost, and the hybrid never recovered the carlength.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, not all hybrid turbos are equal.

Data logs showed my BNR Stage 4 was getting positive manifold pressure (boost) ~1,500rpm, ~2psi by 2,000rpm, 7psi by 2,500rpm and 17psi by 3,000rpm.

I couldn't launch over 2,500rpm or I would spin the tires through 1st. Had to launch at 2,250rpm slipping cluch a bit (11# flywheel) and shift at ~3,500rpm when the tires were hopelessly overwhelmed.

Putting in the larger T04 exhaust wheels helped spool by decreasing exhaust restriction and raising VE I believe and I suspect it helps that the larger diameter has more torque multiplication on the compressor shaft since the exhaust velocity is the same through the housing.

My boost response got BETTER when I went from clipped "O" trim to clipped "P" trim.

I also ported the width of the exhaust housing scroll outlet slots so they were twice as wide as stock for better flow and the rear slot outlet was facing more perpendicular to exhaust wheel instead of toward the front of the turbo. And other details like this.