855m0n0

iTrader: (1)

I wrote 46mm I typoed. It is a 56mm. Sorry. It is P/N 11501560 with the yellow spring.

Carl Byck

WG is to atmosphere. I just switched from a 3/16 COM line to 1/4", and hose clamped instead of zip tied everything. If that does not get it, I will try a 50MM Valve. Dave I did not change anything, but I am on the road, vs the dyno, so maybe that's it, although you were in 4th, and I am only in 2nd... I have always been able to hold 1 bar with a 1 bar spring. Considering a 40mm WG is supposed to be good for ~500hp, and this actually measures 32mm, it would not suprise me if it was being overwhelmed. Carl

Carl Byck

Anyone know offhand whatt he size of the WG hole is on the manifold?

gfelber

Whoa, I misread your post. Thought you were using a 50. With regard to the mani, yeah that should work fine.

Keep us updated a good luck.

Gene

Carl Byck

Well, I turned the EBC off, changed all the hoses to 1/4", hose clamped them, ported the dump to ~35mm(from 32mm), and it peaks at 1.22bar in 2nd gear. It is definitely the WG. I will switch it for the 50mm SS Autochrome piece, and then if that works, I will grab an HKS when one comes up at a good price. I must say I was suprised that the dump was so small. So, I guess the standard is not enough to bypass more than 400ish, since that is what ~15-18 psi would be on this turbo minimum.

GUITARJUNKIE28

but it held 15psi for me. something HAS to be different.

take the boost controller off and just run a boost reference line to the bottom of the wastegate and see where it goes.

Wankelboble

Oki heh i see.. But its seems like u have fond out whats rong then.. to smal WG. I am going to us Turbosmarts WG then bigest race one .

Bukwild

damn hks GT2 60mm wastegate $720. Not exactly giving it away

XSTransAm

how did you "disable the boost controller"?

you need to run a line straight from the manifold to the gate and see what that does, also a lighter spring like i said before would help alot.

a wastegate is not horsepower related, its boost related. a 40mm gate will work on a 1500hp car as long as the turbo does not need to bleed off that much air.

I dono, maybe my 1.0 exhaust side just lets me run lower boost.

RETed

I dunno how everyone is doing it running anything smaller than a 45mm WG.

We've tried 35mm, 38mm, 40mm - all cannot control boost on a healthy 13B.

This is why I always recommend Tial 46, HKS 50 Race, or 50 / 60 GT or GTII WG's.
We don't mess with anything else.

Another variable is the turbo exhaust manifold...
The HKS cast design SUCKS - well, at least for one of the runners.

If you use a very efficient design (read - custom pipe) in terms of WG runners, you might be able to get away with an HKS 40mm standard.

Man, messing around with ssautochrome knock-off's is asking for trouble.
Try do a web search on "ssautochrome wastegate problem"...


-Ted

BDC

"We" use HKS 40mm WG's and they work just fine with cars so far up to nearly 500rwhp. I'm not sure where you guys are having issues crop up from.

B

XSTransAm

when is the last time you saw a hks cast, afaik the design has been improved in recent years. my car put down 356whp at 12psi. Easily held around 6psi with the 40mm gate, and 6psi spring. Now easily holding 17 psi with a 10.2 psi spring.

Ide say thats a healthy setup.

again though im using a bigger exhaust housing on my turbo then most, and it shows in my spool time. I am hoping to get a datalog of it soon though so i can actually see exactly what rpms my boost hits 17 at.

What kind of turbos were you running? exhaust sides? manifolds?

afterthought: what were you using for boost control?

Carl Byck

I searched the entire web with three or four different phrases, I can find one documented failure of an SSAutochrome WG, and it looks like the user damaged the diaphragm, as it has a small tear adjacent to one of the bolts. I suppose thequestion of what the diaphragm is made of is the question, it appears to be silicone, but it could just be rubber. There Tial/HKS knock-offs appear identical in construction to their counterparts. I agree that a WG is not a place to skimp, but I am not convinced that the quality is lacking. can you link me to another failure, other than the one on the DSM forum? For as many parts as they have sold, and for the quality of mechanic buying ther stuff(in general), I'd say 1 failure is an unbelievably good record. In my case, it will see few miles since it is a dedicated track car. I would probably have them send me an extra diaphragm or two while I am at it. Like I said, I have dis-assembled them, and they are clones of what they copy. Anyway, it's a cheap way to see if a 50mm will solve my problem, I can sell it for what I buy it for when another HKS becomes available. The HKS standard is only 32mm(not 40 as advertised), what would we be sayng if it were SS? yet it is HKS, and no one bats an eye.... LOL Carl

Carl Byck

one other thing TED, there are more FCs over 450rwhp on this forum running the HKS cast than any other manifold, Imagine what these guys could be making if they knew as much as you(Carl assumes Ted's role temporarily )

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

I would say stay 44mm or larger and you should be fine. I've seen 42R's with 44mm run 32+psi no problems.

Carl Byck

Sean, I have a ~44mm Innovative, what do ya think. Any experience with those? I'll just make an adapter. Running high boost is not the problem, it is low boost that is tough. I shoulda bought more HKS GT wastgates on Supraforums, when they introduced the GTII, all the big guns switched, and sold their GT WGs for 350-400.00.................

Later, Carl

BTW, Sean, I'll send you a funny pic of my 42R on my FC...

frode

I didnt know ITS made a 44mm gate... I have their 42mm Progate..

--
frode

GUITARJUNKIE28

carl,
did you try it without the boost controller at all yet?

and where are you getting the boost reference from? have you changed the location?

Xcessive

We have had quite a few cars with this problem lately at our shop. Big exhaust, large street port etc. Both had p trim wheels and .8 ar. Went to Qtrim with .96AR and no more problems. We found the smaller AR wheels cant flow enough exhaust difference between them and the wastegate to keep boost down. This is the case on our piston motors too. Spool suffers, but controller can do better job.
Ralph

RETed

That's true.
I haven't touched one in over 10 years. :P


Again, good point.
There's just too many variables when it comes to boost control.
I don't wanna take the chance the system will creep on you.
Think about it...you're paying thousands of dollars to build this system.
Why skimp on a few hundred dollars now on the most important thing that controls your boost?

I believe the Tial 46mm is under $500.
That's "cheap insurance" to pay in my book...


-Ted

RETed

I can't comment on every "450rwhp" set-up "on this forum".
Like I said before, lots of variables need to be taken into account.

As my previous reply...why get cheap when you put all the time and effort to get it running?

The word "getto" comes to mind...


-Ted

Carl Byck

ANYWAY, we dis-assembled the dreaded SSAC WG, and low and behold it is identical, right down to the diaphragm material. Cheap is bad if it is built different, now that FMICs cost 300, instead of 1200 I don't see anyone bitching, let's just be thankful that all the hodah guys gave the aftermarket the volume they needde to make this stuff for a reasonable price. I have an HKS GT wastegate, there is nothing about it that is worth 800.00+, it is essentially the same as the 200.00 wastegate my buddy has. I am looking at them side by side. Ted, you said search for problems with the SSAC stuff, I did, and found one failure out of thousands of customers, am I missing something? also, when you have spent 15-20K, every penny counts that much more, trust me Anyway, I suspect that there is some greater reliability to be had with the high end stuff, in my instance, I run 111 octane@10.5AFR with water injection, and 11.5 plugs. Nothing short of a nuclear bomb will get my motor to detonate, still, I'd like to have some say over what boost I am running

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

I have HKS GT (as well 60mm) and no boost issues at all. And dumped to ground it sounds cool as well

RETed

Yeah, it comes down to a "moral" issue.
Tial and HKS pour lots of money into R&D to produce their products.
Along comes some Taiwan / Korean **** who decides to off-shore the raw materials and labor and just make knock-off duplicates.
Go read the DSM Loggers site.

If you have NO problem giving money to companies who do zero R&D and just rip off other's R&D, then I'm wasting my time arguing.
The U.S. is one of the top intellectual properties based economy in the world.
There will always be knock-off companies that will eat into this.

As for Turbonetics and their bar-and-plate IC's...they just plain **** me off.
I don't see how a 200psi tested radiator has anything to do with performance - who the **** runs 100+ psi of coolant pressure???
I buy the cheap-*** IC cores off eBay cause Turbonetics has fucked me over in the past; now I'll go tell them to shove their $1,000 bar-and-plate IC core up their asses, cause I got mine off eBay for $300 shipped to Hawaii.


Actually, no I don't agree...seriously.
If it was about the money, I would've abandoned the project a long time ago.
Cars are money pits.
99.99% of us will never reclaim the amount of money we "invest" into the vehicle.
When I want to do more mods to my car, I work more...this is why I'm working two jobs now.
...seriously.

This is also the reason why my car hasn't gone anywhere for a long time.
I just didn't have the money.
Now that the money is finally rolling in, the project has begun again.
Plans are in the works for a twin turbo GT-series turboS system.
IC is a cheap-*** $300 unit off eBay - 24" x 12" x 3" core /w polished endtanks, 3" in / out.
ECU will be Haltech - dunno if I want to be a guinea pig for the new E8, or use my spare E6K, or drop a little more for an E11...
I'm also shopping for wheels...

Sorry for the threadjack!


-Ted

88fc3sw/HX83

yep! Money is no object for Carol, unless it's wastegates...lol