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20b efr 9180 question

Old 01-15-18, 08:18 AM
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the gt4202r on the car, is a tial in/out turbine housing. why go t4 split pulse on a 3 rotor? with minor changes to the manifold, the tial 1.32 a/r 9174 will fit.
how will the odd number of exaust pulses affect the spool and so on, with an open t4 manifold matet to a t4 devided turbo?
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Old 01-15-18, 09:17 AM
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The 9174 is a bad choice for a 20B. Itís not really even a great choice for a 13B. It really only exists to allow smaller engines to utilize the high flow/high PR area of the larger 9180 compressor without overspeeding the 80mm titanium aluminide turbine and causing failure. From an cross sectional area, the 9174 on a 20B is roughly equivalent to a EFR 6758 on a 13B (2/3 of the C/S area). You would not choose an EFR 6758 to make 466whp on a 13B (2/3 of a 700whp).
There isnít really an EFR option for a 20B-sized engine.

An EFR 8374 sized turbo is a great choice for 450-500whp on a 13B. If you add roughly 50% to the compressor and turbine cross sectional areas, youíre looking at something similar to an S476 SX-E. Also, if youíre interested in the Tial housing, they make an investment cast stainless housing for the S476 87mm turbine in 1.02, 1.16, and 1.30 A/R. The Tial housings are also hands down higher quality than the BW EFR housings.
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Old 01-15-18, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
I personally avoid the TiAL Turbine Housings and would suggest the 1.45 A/R EWG from BorgWarner Direct.

You can find it here:
https://www.full-race.com/store/borg...rbine-housing/

Or just order it with the turbo.

I'll actually be fitting this setup to one of our 20Bs thats on the engine dyno as soon as I can get back into the shop as well as give it a couple hours of break in. I actually haven't seen anybody try to run this config, just a lot of folks parroting that it is a poor choice for peak power numbers. If I'm wrong and anybody has seen some real dyno sheets (don't care about peak) with a boost reference I'd love to see them.
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Old 01-26-18, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Auning View Post
the gt4202r on the car, is a tial in/out turbine housing. why go t4 split pulse on a 3 rotor? with minor changes to the manifold, the tial 1.32 a/r 9174 will fit.
how will the odd number of exaust pulses affect the spool and so on, with an open t4 manifold matet to a t4 devided turbo?
The question above regarding how to go about the outlet of a 3 rotor exhaust manifold is the one that never seems to be discussed that often. Do most just go full open T4 (or T6) or try and split the three. Are you limited to what's available if you are not running divided ?
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Old 03-31-18, 05:01 PM
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Hi all, quick update on the 20b and 9180 marriage. Sorry its been so long:

Santa Barbara was hit with a fair bit of natural disasters/fallout after the Thomas fire so I've been super laggy on running this setup. Also Jim Hagerty, formerly of Mariah Motorsports, passed away due to complications from, again, the Thomas fire. As such my partner (Dr. Wayne Graham formerly of Rotary Engineering back in the '80s) and I have been racing around figuring out where we'll be doing our work/builds etc and had pushed off this testing. Long story short a letter of intent has been signed and we will be the owners of the old Mariah building. So...on to the good stuff:

The 9180 and a 20b rocks if you're interested in a long lasting, reliable, V8-like torque machine. It will never be a dyno queen or top end screamer though. At this point we haven't done anything more than 18 psi (I'm still trying to convince Wayne that boost pressure doesn't matter, only IAT and combustion chamber pressure matter, but I digress) and so we've been pretty low on our peak power numbers (635hp 480tq). Whats VERY cool is the fact that even with a 1.45 turbine housing we're seeing target boost pressure at around 3500 RPM and I'm certain once a 4 port solenoid is fitted we'll see at least 100-150 horses more at 26ish PSI.

I'll post up some photos/sheets once all data is in and if anyone has any questions, suggestions or ideas regarding testing and/or development please feel free to respond here, pm me, or email me at [email protected]


Thanks much! Sorry for the delay.
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Old 03-31-18, 05:04 PM
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P.S. We may be seeing target boost pressure before 3500 but honestly, in a tube framed race application, who gives a ****?

Last edited by dguy; 03-31-18 at 05:05 PM. Reason: accidently a words
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Old 04-01-18, 05:48 AM
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How do you think the t4 devided housing is, compared to a tial 1.32 a/r ?
i think this is the way to go for a street/ track weapon
if it is a bit low on power ( i dont know before i try it in real life) i can ad some NOS ��
What turbine speed did you have at 18psi?
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Old 04-05-18, 05:32 PM
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I'll have to get back to you on turbo speed but with regards to a larger divided housing VS an undivided vband housing I'll just say that we're not hurting with regards to spool, we have full boost by 3500 (we'll have to tweak lower RPMs at the track, the older Superflow, even though its rated for 1000 horsepower/whatever torque equation they're using is, it doesn't want to load well below 3500). We are certainly hitting stall at the moment due to a low spring pressure desire for torque modulation and using a 3 port solenoid though I'm sure I could try out some other power delivery control strategies that aren't as intrusive as trac control. The thing hits a brick wall at 7500.

Last edited by dguy; 04-05-18 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 06-15-18, 12:16 PM
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Somewhat back from the dead but another small update. Engine config/tune is finalized on the dyno and we'll be shoehorning this beast into its chassis over the next month. Still very conservative due to the fact that this will be the most power/weight my client has put on the street and we're eschewing the use of any 'nannies' (traction control) for the time being. Still going through some logs but here's some pertinent info:

Power at peak : 700 / 514 @ 7000 RPM and 20 PSI
Timing at peak torque/combustion temp: 11.5*
Intake temps at peak torque/combustion temp: 103* F
Water/Meth Injection at peak pressure: ~900cc's
ECU: Motec M800
Turbo: EFR 9180 1.45 turbine
Port Config: Moderate to large side port


Still hitting a wall at 7500 however not as bad. It's not the end of the world as we're making 500 ft/lbs of torque from 5000-7000. We didn't bother doing any more power pulls below 5000 but I'm sure its very usable, 2000+ RPMs of that much torque should be enough to deal with the vette and viper crews we've had trouble with in the past. And if not time for 25+ psi if the turbo will make the boost.
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Old 06-15-18, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dguy View Post
Somewhat back from the dead but another small update. Engine config/tune is finalized on the dyno and we'll be shoehorning this beast into its chassis over the next month. Still very conservative due to the fact that this will be the most power/weight my client has put on the street and we're eschewing the use of any 'nannies' (traction control) for the time being. Still going through some logs but here's some pertinent info:

Power at peak : 700 / 514 @ 7000 RPM and 20 PSI
Timing at peak torque/combustion temp: 11.5*
Intake temps at peak torque/combustion temp: 103* F
Water/Meth Injection at peak pressure: ~900cc's
ECU: Motec M800
Turbo: EFR 9180 1.45 turbine
Port Config: Moderate to large side port


Still hitting a wall at 7500 however not as bad. It's not the end of the world as we're making 500 ft/lbs of torque from 5000-7000. We didn't bother doing any more power pulls below 5000 but I'm sure its very usable, 2000+ RPMs of that much torque should be enough to deal with the vette and viper crews we've had trouble with in the past. And if not time for 25+ psi if the turbo will make the boost.
That turbo will be a LOT more efficient over 25psi of boost. Excited to see what happens from here.
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Old 06-15-18, 04:16 PM
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Are you monitoring turbine speed? I imagine you will hit max turbo RPM before 25psi on a 20B
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Old 06-15-18, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
That turbo will be a LOT more efficient over 25psi of boost. Excited to see what happens from here.
I agree, but since I'm not writing the checks I figure we hit our target and potentially have room to grow.


Originally Posted by Dragoon View Post
Are you monitoring turbine speed? I imagine you will hit max turbo RPM before 25psi on a 20B
This pass we didn't however channels are set aside and there's an optical sensor sitting on my desk. Obviously we'll stop feeding boost before the turbos redline!
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