Is 15 degrees timing advance at 15lbs too advanced?
09-15-03, 05:41 PM
#1
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bannished
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is 15 degrees timing advance at 15lbs too advanced?
The opinion has been stated that the ideal timing advance for a ported motor and a single turbo is 12 degrees. Here is the quote:
Which, when talking the same "Rob" has stated to at least two people and me that 15 degrees at 15 lbs is fine.
What does your experience tell you?
I talked with Rob today and he confirmed that the timing should be at around 12 advance. 15 is way to advanced for that motor.
What does your experience tell you?
09-15-03, 05:55 PM
#3
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bannished
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's your quote, Jason, so please provide your insight.
Advance after torque peak. Are you using a flat timing curve? So you use 12 across the board? How about we keep our "love" comments to each other in private and let the thread gain input?
Advance after torque peak. Are you using a flat timing curve? So you use 12 across the board? How about we keep our "love" comments to each other in private and let the thread gain input?
Last edited by Badog; 09-15-03 at 06:07 PM.
09-15-03, 06:03 PM
#6
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bannished
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now see, you did it. You made yourself look foolish all by yourself!
Where did I call myself an expert? Teach me something new and I'll learn it.
Where did I call myself an expert? Teach me something new and I'll learn it.
Last edited by Badog; 09-15-03 at 06:09 PM.
Trending Topics
09-15-03, 07:00 PM
#9
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
oh ohh,I can tell you guys from experience that 15 degrees @ 15 lbs is ok to run on 91 octane, maybe BDC will chime in and give his opinion. Sorry to hear a motor was blown...
Jim
09-16-03, 05:44 PM
#16
Originally posted by setzep
A while back Hitman stated that he found no real power gains were found over 12 deg at 15psi so I run 11 at 15psi.
A while back Hitman stated that he found no real power gains were found over 12 deg at 15psi so I run 11 at 15psi.
Im not talking about 15 advanced at 15 lbs. Im reffering at 16-17lbs of boost. Both Zavier and myself run similar motors to the one that blew and have played with timing extensivley on the dyno. At peak torque the timing is 12 and we slowly advance it after that.
Jason
09-16-03, 09:16 PM
#18
Living life 9 seconds at a time
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Abingdon, Md
Posts: 6,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Demetrios set my timing at 12degrees at 20lbs, even on race gas. Its not worth a whopping 20rwhp to me to be on the edge. The big dyno numbers are nice if you own a Supra. Myself, I'd rather put up numbers at the track. For example if someone were to say "I made 460rwhp at 15psi" and run low 12's at the track. I would call them a bullshitter.....lol........MPH tells all.
09-17-03, 01:04 AM
#19
Originally posted by ErnieT
For example if someone were to say "I made 460rwhp at 15psi" and run low 12's at the track. I would call them a bullshitter.....lol........MPH tells all.
For example if someone were to say "I made 460rwhp at 15psi" and run low 12's at the track. I would call them a bullshitter.....lol........MPH tells all.
Every motor combination is different and thus requires different tuning specifications to operate safely.
Some motors like 15 and others 12 degrees of advance to run safely.
09-17-03, 11:49 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately timing is not cut and dry but there are some good rules of thumb to start with.
For example 12 deg is a good starting point for a base map and I do not feel 15 deg is totally overkill.
You must be careul with some EFI systems because 15 deg isn't always actually 15deg. Be sure to follow the procedures for your system and "zero the timing" or verify what your motor sees when the ecu is set to zero.
I have seen some engine management systems have a 2-5 degree variance under high rpm so this will have to be accounted for also.
A good test for timing is:
First tune the car with a conservative timing settings. Once the A/F is right now is the time to get out your egt guage and verify your timing. If you advance your timing and your egt's are reasonbable and you pick up power your advance in timing was the correct move. If you egt's go up and you loose power it was a wrong move. The same can be applied in reverse. If you pull timing out and make more power the retarding of your timing was a good move.
Demetrios
P.S All the above should be performed by a professional
For example 12 deg is a good starting point for a base map and I do not feel 15 deg is totally overkill.
You must be careul with some EFI systems because 15 deg isn't always actually 15deg. Be sure to follow the procedures for your system and "zero the timing" or verify what your motor sees when the ecu is set to zero.
I have seen some engine management systems have a 2-5 degree variance under high rpm so this will have to be accounted for also.
A good test for timing is:
First tune the car with a conservative timing settings. Once the A/F is right now is the time to get out your egt guage and verify your timing. If you advance your timing and your egt's are reasonbable and you pick up power your advance in timing was the correct move. If you egt's go up and you loose power it was a wrong move. The same can be applied in reverse. If you pull timing out and make more power the retarding of your timing was a good move.
Demetrios
P.S All the above should be performed by a professional
09-17-03, 01:20 PM
#22
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: abingdon, maryland
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey dee, when are you gonna hook a brother up with a single turbo conversion?......do you have time next january??? or so when you ain't racing. oh yeah, saw you in turbo magazine race coverage. kevin.
09-17-03, 01:43 PM
#23
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rotor_dee, good post.
This may be a stupid question but how does the porting effect the RPM were the peak torque is?
I think that the more porting the higher in the rev range it will be but what would be the approximate difference in RPM from a street port to a bridge port. I know that every motor is different but I would like to know from someone who has tuned the same engine with the same setup but with different porting.
This may be a stupid question but how does the porting effect the RPM were the peak torque is?
I think that the more porting the higher in the rev range it will be but what would be the approximate difference in RPM from a street port to a bridge port. I know that every motor is different but I would like to know from someone who has tuned the same engine with the same setup but with different porting.
09-17-03, 04:16 PM
#24
Just Call Me Terminator!
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ernie was making fun of me again ahhhhh
i think i was running 20degrees when i made the 459rwhp and yup i ran 12.0 @ 118 mph, 118MPH is ok for 15psi of boost, well i think so anyway. ah well
bastard
i think i was running 20degrees when i made the 459rwhp and yup i ran 12.0 @ 118 mph, 118MPH is ok for 15psi of boost, well i think so anyway. ah well
bastard
09-18-03, 07:23 AM
#25
Lives on the Forum
Jon, i dont know that he was "making fun" or calling BS.... from the way i read it, it sounds to me as if he is saying that a dyno sheet like this....
does have a 459 on it.... but your MPH shows that the 459 is really a bogus number. i personaly think you shoudl be able to agree with Ernie that perticular sheet is not/should not be used to make HP claims from.
does have a 459 on it.... but your MPH shows that the 459 is really a bogus number. i personaly think you shoudl be able to agree with Ernie that perticular sheet is not/should not be used to make HP claims from.