FD3S/FC3S: Any demand for Vacuum Infused Dry Carbon Doors?
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09-22-08, 06:22 PM
#52
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I believe the FC doors are very easy to seperate the exterior skin and seperate it from the support/inside of the door.
Will we be able to use all the stock hardware (windows, regulator,locks,rods,handles,door panels)?
Will we be able to use all the stock hardware (windows, regulator,locks,rods,handles,door panels)?
09-22-08, 08:00 PM
#54
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Some of my fellow engineering students at SDSU learned this the hard way, when their vacuumed/post cured unicarbon sandwich layup could absorb less energy than the same part made from an equal weight of fiberglass.
--Alex
09-22-08, 10:12 PM
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I think one thing to consider is that the FRP door would actually be stronger per weight in a crash than the carbon. Carbon is very strong for its weight, but its high stiffness means that it can't absorb as much crash energy as fiberglass or kevlar.
Some of my fellow engineering students at SDSU learned this the hard way, when their vacuumed/post cured unicarbon sandwich layup could absorb less energy than the same part made from an equal weight of fiberglass.
--Alex
Some of my fellow engineering students at SDSU learned this the hard way, when their vacuumed/post cured unicarbon sandwich layup could absorb less energy than the same part made from an equal weight of fiberglass.
--Alex
09-22-08, 10:38 PM
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As for strength, I don't think it matters too much if your in auto-x, but for something where you have a chance of someone hitting you on the track then it would be nice for it to have some strength to it.
I am interested in these, FRP is a definite! If these things get wrecked I don't want to have to pay an *** load to get some replacements!
When do you plan on having these done? and how long would they be available for? I may not be able to buy them as soon as they come out, or I may have to wait on that sunroof....
09-24-08, 01:04 PM
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S5 doors
I believe it's about 65-70lbs.
With everything (mirror-glass-window regulator handles-ect)
I can curl it in one arm.
S4 doors do not have the extra support the s5 did they should be about 10-15lbs lighter than s5 doors.
I have a couple of doors sitting in my attic if im not too lazy I will pull one out and weigh it.
Also for ken just use DRY ICE to freeze the goo and use wooden chopsticks to scrape it off or a painters mixing stick, to help avoid scratching the steel.
You can also use a bottle of compressed Co2 and spray the goo with it to freeze.then scrape.
The remaining residue can be cleaned off with paint thinner or acetone.
Should take no more than 15 minutes to clean.
I believe it's about 65-70lbs.
With everything (mirror-glass-window regulator handles-ect)
I can curl it in one arm.
S4 doors do not have the extra support the s5 did they should be about 10-15lbs lighter than s5 doors.
I have a couple of doors sitting in my attic if im not too lazy I will pull one out and weigh it.
Also for ken just use DRY ICE to freeze the goo and use wooden chopsticks to scrape it off or a painters mixing stick, to help avoid scratching the steel.
You can also use a bottle of compressed Co2 and spray the goo with it to freeze.then scrape.
The remaining residue can be cleaned off with paint thinner or acetone.
Should take no more than 15 minutes to clean.
Last edited by JunpoweR; 09-24-08 at 01:09 PM.
09-24-08, 01:19 PM
#63
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OK since people were asking i took my 90 GXL door with window regulators removed, glass removed, and window trim removed.
All that stuff should add up to just under 10 lbs but here is the weight of the door without the few items.
lighter than i thought guess i'm loosing muscles!
It says 50lbs for a S5 door without glass and window regulator.
All that stuff should add up to just under 10 lbs but here is the weight of the door without the few items.
lighter than i thought guess i'm loosing muscles!
It says 50lbs for a S5 door without glass and window regulator.
09-24-08, 04:02 PM
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it is an old scale but weighs me only 5 lbs over at 225.
My digital scale says I am 223.2 so I don't think it's too off.
Remember the door is missing the door panel, power window motors, no glass. I can say that might be about 10-15 lbs more so most GXL S5 doors should weigh about 65 lbs (give or take 5lbs). I had a set of fiberglass doors for a FB and those weighed in at 19.8 lbs each without all the guts. They were stiff not floppy parts.
The difference between power and non power was about 8-14 lbs only.
S4 doors are lighter than comprable S5 doors.I used to own a 86 sport model with no sunroof before and were noticably lighter than 90GTUs doors by about 15-25 lbs I believe maybe im smoking something but please correct me if I am wrong.
BTW I would like Carbon Fiber and a set of Fiberglass doors so let us know when your ready to make them.
If you could I would also be interested in a set of CF or FG outter skins.
I am sure most people wouldn't mind keeping the inner frame and having a CF or FG skin.
If they know how to install just skins. If not I can put up a DYI on just the outer skin install in the future if you do happen to sell some . They would drop some weight but not all of it and the idea of being slightly lighter is fun.
I am sure it would be much cheaper also in the 200-350 range??
Also I like the idea of dry carbon with higher strength. Using good super clear epoxy, honecomb, vacuumm infused! I love it. I wish I had an autoclave at home but I do have access to one that can fit a whole fc near by.I just dont have time to make CF parts for production but wait a few years and everyone will see my widebody GTUs soon enough(alot of carbon goodies)
I have a method of getting more gloss out of them with a special film type material sorta like clear sticker bra.
My digital scale says I am 223.2 so I don't think it's too off.
Remember the door is missing the door panel, power window motors, no glass. I can say that might be about 10-15 lbs more so most GXL S5 doors should weigh about 65 lbs (give or take 5lbs). I had a set of fiberglass doors for a FB and those weighed in at 19.8 lbs each without all the guts. They were stiff not floppy parts.
The difference between power and non power was about 8-14 lbs only.
S4 doors are lighter than comprable S5 doors.I used to own a 86 sport model with no sunroof before and were noticably lighter than 90GTUs doors by about 15-25 lbs I believe maybe im smoking something but please correct me if I am wrong.
BTW I would like Carbon Fiber and a set of Fiberglass doors so let us know when your ready to make them.
If you could I would also be interested in a set of CF or FG outter skins.
I am sure most people wouldn't mind keeping the inner frame and having a CF or FG skin.
If they know how to install just skins. If not I can put up a DYI on just the outer skin install in the future if you do happen to sell some . They would drop some weight but not all of it and the idea of being slightly lighter is fun.
I am sure it would be much cheaper also in the 200-350 range??
Also I like the idea of dry carbon with higher strength. Using good super clear epoxy, honecomb, vacuumm infused! I love it. I wish I had an autoclave at home but I do have access to one that can fit a whole fc near by.I just dont have time to make CF parts for production but wait a few years and everyone will see my widebody GTUs soon enough(alot of carbon goodies)
I have a method of getting more gloss out of them with a special film type material sorta like clear sticker bra.
Last edited by JunpoweR; 09-24-08 at 04:26 PM.
09-24-08, 05:19 PM
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you guys saying you want cf, think about it. If/when those things get destroyed on the track, do you really want to pay the price for another? or a couple hundred cheaper of the FRP? Just something to think about.
09-24-08, 06:17 PM
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09-24-08, 06:30 PM
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So....if the door weight revolves around durability, and quality fiberglass is more durable for a given weight, couldn't you build a fiberglass door lighter?
And if a fiberglass door is lighter, why pay more for carbon? Its simply not the right material for the job, IMO. Kevlar in the right places wouldn't hurt, though.
09-24-08, 07:07 PM
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I believe strength and stiffness comes with what type of weave you are using and how you lay it down.Also the type of Epoxy Resins that are used and last the method of production(vacuumm infused in a clave or wet lay or just bagged).If the CF doors are made in an AUTOCLAVE there is almost no way a FG door will be lighter and stronger. " No way"? Well atleast thats what I believe.
I know u can lay up 1/4" of fiberglass and 1/4" of CF/Kevlar composite will stop a medium Cal. bullet, Fiberglass wont.
Almost all race cars use CF composites .
Carbon Fiber is 10 Times stronger and nicer than Fiberglass!
Fiberglass is not stronger than CF pound for pound NO WAY BUDDY.
The only thing better is it's cheaper.
I know u can lay up 1/4" of fiberglass and 1/4" of CF/Kevlar composite will stop a medium Cal. bullet, Fiberglass wont.
Almost all race cars use CF composites .
Carbon Fiber is 10 Times stronger and nicer than Fiberglass!
Fiberglass is not stronger than CF pound for pound NO WAY BUDDY.
The only thing better is it's cheaper.
Last edited by JunpoweR; 09-24-08 at 07:22 PM.
09-24-08, 08:57 PM
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09-24-08, 10:03 PM
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Everyone should read this thread if they haven't...
https://www.rx7club.com/interior-exterior-audio-26/rx-7-series-6-carbon-fibre-doors-483641/
It talks about...
FD dry carbon fiber door = 10 kg or 22 lbs weight savings/door.
Carbon fiber doors having flex and molded anti-intrusion bar for safety.
Carbon fiber damage repairs that are barely noticeable.
and much more
IMHO...
The CF doors probably could be made safer than FRP doors because of the strength if the CF is flexible enough. Some CF can be repaired more easily than most people think if perfection of the looks is not necessary. I don't know that these are reasons enough to justify the higher costs over FRP where the weight difference might be 2 lbs/door? I would expect the doors could be made safe enough in either material and probably as safe as the stock doors. The anti-intrusion bar commonly comes unwelded on the FD steel doors from vibration (door makes a hollow tinny thunk when closed). I bet that wouldn't happen with a molded anti-intrusion bar.
https://www.rx7club.com/interior-exterior-audio-26/rx-7-series-6-carbon-fibre-doors-483641/
It talks about...
FD dry carbon fiber door = 10 kg or 22 lbs weight savings/door.
Carbon fiber doors having flex and molded anti-intrusion bar for safety.
Carbon fiber damage repairs that are barely noticeable.
and much more
IMHO...
The CF doors probably could be made safer than FRP doors because of the strength if the CF is flexible enough. Some CF can be repaired more easily than most people think if perfection of the looks is not necessary. I don't know that these are reasons enough to justify the higher costs over FRP where the weight difference might be 2 lbs/door? I would expect the doors could be made safe enough in either material and probably as safe as the stock doors. The anti-intrusion bar commonly comes unwelded on the FD steel doors from vibration (door makes a hollow tinny thunk when closed). I bet that wouldn't happen with a molded anti-intrusion bar.
