Rtek wideband connecting to Rtek
03-10-08, 06:10 PM
#1
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wideband connecting to Rtek
I'm getting an Rtek 2.0 for my s4 na and i'm also getting a wideband (not sure which one yet, probably AEM UEGO). The DT website says Rtek can use either the stock narrowband or wideband for fuel calculations.
So if I got the AEM one would i need to get the wideband sensor and controller or just the sensor?
So if I got the AEM one would i need to get the wideband sensor and controller or just the sensor?
03-10-08, 06:20 PM
#2
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You need the sensor plus controller. Buy a Zeitronix. Zeitronix also features EGT and it's display can be by the Palm that is used by the RTEK2.0/2.1. See the Digital Tuning site for ZEITRONIX.
The Zeitronix can also display the starting rpms when you do a compression check. The RTEK2.1 can't do that.
The Zeitronix 02 output can be also read on the Palm when the Palm is connected to the RTEK 2.1.
Stuff just cost dough. The Govt is printing dough and devaluing the dough in your back pocket. Don't worry about the future. HillObama will take care of all your needs and wants. Can anybody say Ponzi Scheme and Social Security in the same breath? sad humor
The Zeitronix can also display the starting rpms when you do a compression check. The RTEK2.1 can't do that.
The Zeitronix 02 output can be also read on the Palm when the Palm is connected to the RTEK 2.1.
Stuff just cost dough. The Govt is printing dough and devaluing the dough in your back pocket. Don't worry about the future. HillObama will take care of all your needs and wants. Can anybody say Ponzi Scheme and Social Security in the same breath? sad humor
03-10-08, 07:47 PM
#4
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Dude the AEM UEGO does not have a linear 0-5v signal. It has a polynomial signal. You will not get accurate readings.
Innovate, Zeitronix, PLX, there are a lot of choices. But the AEM has a notoriously bad 0-5v output.
Innovate, Zeitronix, PLX, there are a lot of choices. But the AEM has a notoriously bad 0-5v output.
03-10-08, 08:33 PM
#5
You need the sensor plus controller. Buy a Zeitronix. Zeitronix also features EGT and it's display can be by the Palm that is used by the RTEK2.0/2.1. See the Digital Tuning site for ZEITRONIX.
The Zeitronix can also display the starting rpms when you do a compression check. The RTEK2.1 can't do that.
The Zeitronix 02 output can be also read on the Palm when the Palm is connected to the RTEK 2.1.
Stuff just cost dough. The Govt is printing dough and devaluing the dough in your back pocket. Don't worry about the future. HillObama will take care of all your needs and wants. Can anybody say Ponzi Scheme and Social Security in the same breath? sad humor
The Zeitronix can also display the starting rpms when you do a compression check. The RTEK2.1 can't do that.
The Zeitronix 02 output can be also read on the Palm when the Palm is connected to the RTEK 2.1.
Stuff just cost dough. The Govt is printing dough and devaluing the dough in your back pocket. Don't worry about the future. HillObama will take care of all your needs and wants. Can anybody say Ponzi Scheme and Social Security in the same breath? sad humor
The future that is, not the Zeitronix. I am going to try to connect my NGK A/Fx in a couple of days when I install the 2.1 upgrade chip. Anybody had experience with this combo??
03-10-08, 09:53 PM
#6
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Ok is it worth the extra effort to wire the Wideband into the Rtek as opposed to simply running the Rtek off of the stock narrow band and then installing the wideband as a seperate gauge. Does it affect the way the ECU operates?
03-10-08, 10:01 PM
#7
well, I plan on using the accurate readings of the wideband to tune the fuel maps, So i need to log the wideband, if you don't need to log the wideband then I wouldn't wire a narrow band to the Rtek, that would be silly.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. The rtek will display the stock narrow band O2 signal normally, but this isn't useful for tuning fuel maps. The Rtek is also capable of logging a 0-5v wideband signal which is useful for tuning fuel maps.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. The rtek will display the stock narrow band O2 signal normally, but this isn't useful for tuning fuel maps. The Rtek is also capable of logging a 0-5v wideband signal which is useful for tuning fuel maps.
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03-10-08, 10:57 PM
#8
Meh, I'd just keep the stock O2 sensor in there and leave the stock narrowband wire alone. No sense in cutting up more of the stock harness than necessary IMO. Then install the wideband in a bung as far back as possible to keep it from over heating. I have a test pipe so I have mine installed right before my RB catback.
Then splice in the 0-5v output wire on your wideband to what, the variable resistor wire? whatever the instructions call for. Also be very careful about the way you wire your grounds. Follow the instructions for your wideband carefully because you can get electrical noise that will screw up the reading that goes to the Rtek. Ideally you would have the wideband hooked into the Rtek so you can display that information in your datalogs, AND have a separate AFR gauge.
On my car with Innovate LC-1 wideband, I have the 0-5v output wire going into my Power FC (datalogit box), then I have a wideband display gauge mounted in the center of the steering column under the tach (blocks shift up light but oh well). That way it's really easy to see. I use the autometer universal mounting cup.
Then splice in the 0-5v output wire on your wideband to what, the variable resistor wire? whatever the instructions call for. Also be very careful about the way you wire your grounds. Follow the instructions for your wideband carefully because you can get electrical noise that will screw up the reading that goes to the Rtek. Ideally you would have the wideband hooked into the Rtek so you can display that information in your datalogs, AND have a separate AFR gauge.
On my car with Innovate LC-1 wideband, I have the 0-5v output wire going into my Power FC (datalogit box), then I have a wideband display gauge mounted in the center of the steering column under the tach (blocks shift up light but oh well). That way it's really easy to see. I use the autometer universal mounting cup.
03-11-08, 09:23 AM
#10
Correct me if Im wrong, but if you have the UEGO with Gauge the output from the gauge WILL be Linear. If you have the set-up without the gauge it just spits out polynomials...maybe this information should be added to the pocketlogger site or Rtek manual.
Is it possible for the 2.0 to have a selection for polynomial inputs?
I think the Equation from the AEM forum is
AFR = .0295X^4-.1795X^3+.4877X^2+.5333X+8.4422
where X = voltage (0-5V)
03-11-08, 01:30 PM
#11
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i have the whole wb02 uego kit and it works just fine........ dont be a cheap *** and try to throw something together.. buy one full wb02 kit and use it
03-11-08, 03:04 PM
#12
I don't have an Rtek 2.0 . I used to have an Rtek 1.7, and I used to have an AEM UEGO.
All I know is that "AFR=.0295X^4-.1795X^3+.4877X^2+.5333X+8.4422 " where x=voltage is clearly NOT a linear function. That's highschool algebra right there. And the instructions for the Rtek clearly state that you need a LINEAR 0-5v input.
So either the Rtek does in fact support widebands with a polynomial output, or those of you using the AEM UEGO with your Rtek are not getting a 100% accurate signal. Now that doesn't mean the signal is completely unusable, but I wouldn't fully trust it. Anecdotally, I helped my friend tune his 3000GT with an AEM UEGO, using a MAP ECU system, which needs a 0-5v linear input. And I noticed discrepancies at certain AFR's, especially as the mixture got richer.
Unless you can prove accuracy by overlaying a log of the AFR's displayed by the UEGO gauge itself with the AFR's that the Rtek is interpreting from the analog signal, I am inclined to believe that the Rtek is not receiving a fully accurate signal.
All I know is that "AFR=.0295X^4-.1795X^3+.4877X^2+.5333X+8.4422 " where x=voltage is clearly NOT a linear function. That's highschool algebra right there. And the instructions for the Rtek clearly state that you need a LINEAR 0-5v input.
So either the Rtek does in fact support widebands with a polynomial output, or those of you using the AEM UEGO with your Rtek are not getting a 100% accurate signal. Now that doesn't mean the signal is completely unusable, but I wouldn't fully trust it. Anecdotally, I helped my friend tune his 3000GT with an AEM UEGO, using a MAP ECU system, which needs a 0-5v linear input. And I noticed discrepancies at certain AFR's, especially as the mixture got richer.
Unless you can prove accuracy by overlaying a log of the AFR's displayed by the UEGO gauge itself with the AFR's that the Rtek is interpreting from the analog signal, I am inclined to believe that the Rtek is not receiving a fully accurate signal.
03-11-08, 03:25 PM
#13
RotoriousRx7
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the rtek 2.0-.1 have a preset for the use of uego and plx deivices so i dont know what wrong and my afr's from the aem guage to the pda display are maybe .1+/- off from each other
03-11-08, 03:44 PM
#14
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the uego kit seems pretty affordable and if the rtek has presets to read uego then it seems like a well fit match.. boost its what for dinner is backing that up with his own personal experience.. sounds like a winner to me
03-11-08, 06:15 PM
#15
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I like how you can get the Zeitronix with a EGT sensor. I was also reading on their site that you can also get a MAP sensor hooked up to the same system. If I got that MAP sensor add-on could I omit the stock MAF sensor?
03-11-08, 09:13 PM
#16
I don't have an Rtek 2.0 . I used to have an Rtek 1.7, and I used to have an AEM UEGO.
All I know is that "AFR=.0295X^4-.1795X^3+.4877X^2+.5333X+8.4422 " where x=voltage is clearly NOT a linear function. That's highschool algebra right there. And the instructions for the Rtek clearly state that you need a LINEAR 0-5v input.
So either the Rtek does in fact support widebands with a polynomial output, or those of you using the AEM UEGO with your Rtek are not getting a 100% accurate signal. Now that doesn't mean the signal is completely unusable, but I wouldn't fully trust it. Anecdotally, I helped my friend tune his 3000GT with an AEM UEGO, using a MAP ECU system, which needs a 0-5v linear input. And I noticed discrepancies at certain AFR's, especially as the mixture got richer.
Unless you can prove accuracy by overlaying a log of the AFR's displayed by the UEGO gauge itself with the AFR's that the Rtek is interpreting from the analog signal, I am inclined to believe that the Rtek is not receiving a fully accurate signal.
All I know is that "AFR=.0295X^4-.1795X^3+.4877X^2+.5333X+8.4422 " where x=voltage is clearly NOT a linear function. That's highschool algebra right there. And the instructions for the Rtek clearly state that you need a LINEAR 0-5v input.
So either the Rtek does in fact support widebands with a polynomial output, or those of you using the AEM UEGO with your Rtek are not getting a 100% accurate signal. Now that doesn't mean the signal is completely unusable, but I wouldn't fully trust it. Anecdotally, I helped my friend tune his 3000GT with an AEM UEGO, using a MAP ECU system, which needs a 0-5v linear input. And I noticed discrepancies at certain AFR's, especially as the mixture got richer.
Unless you can prove accuracy by overlaying a log of the AFR's displayed by the UEGO gauge itself with the AFR's that the Rtek is interpreting from the analog signal, I am inclined to believe that the Rtek is not receiving a fully accurate signal.
Did u not read what I said?
the lines that come out of the AEM GAUGE ARE LINEAR!
The lines that come out of the AEM controller are POLY!
03-11-08, 10:42 PM
#17
i have the eugo, works fine for me, matches what the rtek says both at idle (12.5) and closed loop (14.7), using linear scaling
03-12-08, 05:31 AM
#18
what?? maybe im missing something, but arent the controller and guage the same thing? or did you mean the output of the actual o2 sensor is polynomial?
i have the eugo, works fine for me, matches what the rtek says both at idle (12.5) and closed loop (14.7), using linear scaling
i have the eugo, works fine for me, matches what the rtek says both at idle (12.5) and closed loop (14.7), using linear scaling
The AEM Single channel
The AEM Dual Channel
The AEM AEM’s Gauge-Type Wideband
The AEM gauge type has the controller in the gauge
While I couldn't find that much information on them as far as linear reading..I think the first two wideband units readings are non-linear and the Gauge type is linear.
Last edited by rogrx7; 03-12-08 at 05:37 AM.
03-12-08, 11:56 AM
#20
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No, they have nothing to do with each other.
03-12-08, 06:23 PM
#21
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AEM has three different wideband setup that they sell.
The AEM Single channel
The AEM Dual Channel
The AEM AEM’s Gauge-Type Wideband
The AEM gauge type has the controller in the gauge
While I couldn't find that much information on them as far as linear reading..I think the first two wideband units readings are non-linear and the Gauge type is linear.
The AEM Single channel
The AEM Dual Channel
The AEM AEM’s Gauge-Type Wideband
The AEM gauge type has the controller in the gauge
While I couldn't find that much information on them as far as linear reading..I think the first two wideband units readings are non-linear and the Gauge type is linear.
I'm going to have to agree that the gauge type 0-5v output is linear. Why you ask? I just called AEM tech support and they said it was.
AEM General Tech Support
For technical questions concerning installation, troubleshooting, and warranty inquiries regarding AEM's line of performance products, not including the EMS unit, please call our sales line at (310) 484-2322.
03-12-08, 06:39 PM
#22
The AEM tech support guys? The same idiots who, after multiple phone calls, finally let me return my faulty gauge with a bad display, then sent it right back to me when it was still broken (with no explanation of what "repair" they did)? The idiots who dicked me around for over a month until I got the customer service department to force them to send me a new gauge?
I don't know about the Rtek 2.0/2.1 , but on the applications I've seen that weren't AEM EMS (Power FC, MAP ECU), the readings were not accurate. I'm not sure if that's because the signal is linear or not (the gauge and the controller are the same thing in this particular product) or because of electrical noise. Also, take a look at the AFR vs. voltage chart that comes with the instructions. It's not linear from what I remember. Why the hell would you even need a big AFR vs. voltage chart when you could say "0 volts is 8:1 and 5 volts is 17:1) or whatever?
The bottom line is, there's no point in getting the AEM if you need something with a reliable 0-5v output. There are other choices. I sold that AEM gauge because the tech support guys are ******** and their product is unreliable.
I don't know about the Rtek 2.0/2.1 , but on the applications I've seen that weren't AEM EMS (Power FC, MAP ECU), the readings were not accurate. I'm not sure if that's because the signal is linear or not (the gauge and the controller are the same thing in this particular product) or because of electrical noise. Also, take a look at the AFR vs. voltage chart that comes with the instructions. It's not linear from what I remember. Why the hell would you even need a big AFR vs. voltage chart when you could say "0 volts is 8:1 and 5 volts is 17:1) or whatever?
The bottom line is, there's no point in getting the AEM if you need something with a reliable 0-5v output. There are other choices. I sold that AEM gauge because the tech support guys are ******** and their product is unreliable.
03-12-08, 07:34 PM
#23
The AEM tech support guys? The same idiots who, after multiple phone calls, finally let me return my faulty gauge with a bad display, then sent it right back to me when it was still broken (with no explanation of what "repair" they did)? The idiots who dicked me around for over a month until I got the customer service department to force them to send me a new gauge?
I don't know about the Rtek 2.0/2.1 , but on the applications I've seen that weren't AEM EMS (Power FC, MAP ECU), the readings were not accurate. I'm not sure if that's because the signal is linear or not (the gauge and the controller are the same thing in this particular product) or because of electrical noise. Also, take a look at the AFR vs. voltage chart that comes with the instructions. It's not linear from what I remember. Why the hell would you even need a big AFR vs. voltage chart when you could say "0 volts is 8:1 and 5 volts is 17:1) or whatever?
The bottom line is, there's no point in getting the AEM if you need something with a reliable 0-5v output. There are other choices. I sold that AEM gauge because the tech support guys are ******** and their product is unreliable.
I don't know about the Rtek 2.0/2.1 , but on the applications I've seen that weren't AEM EMS (Power FC, MAP ECU), the readings were not accurate. I'm not sure if that's because the signal is linear or not (the gauge and the controller are the same thing in this particular product) or because of electrical noise. Also, take a look at the AFR vs. voltage chart that comes with the instructions. It's not linear from what I remember. Why the hell would you even need a big AFR vs. voltage chart when you could say "0 volts is 8:1 and 5 volts is 17:1) or whatever?
The bottom line is, there's no point in getting the AEM if you need something with a reliable 0-5v output. There are other choices. I sold that AEM gauge because the tech support guys are ******** and their product is unreliable.
As far as accurate. If the sensor is to close to the motor you'll fry the sensor and if you run the car pig rich carbon may build up on the sensor and give u a crappy reading.