So is it worth it to send tranny to Liberty?
07-22-10, 05:45 PM
#1
So is it worth it to send tranny to Liberty?
CRYOGENIC PROCESSING
PROCESS: Deep freeze process that removes localized stress, alters and stabilizes molecular structure.
RESULT: Dimensional and core stability increasing wear and fracture resistance.
THERMAL STABILIZATION
PROCESS: Heat treat draw to reduce stress.
RESULT: More resistance to surface fractures.
SHOT PEEN
PROCESS: Action that converts tensile stress (bad stress) into compressive stress (good stress).
RESULT: Higher load capacity.
SURFACE ENHANCEMENT
PROCESS: High energy, extremely uniform finishing process that microscopically blends peaks and valleys of surface finishes.
Unlike other surface enhancement processes our method does not alter gear involute form, resulting in uncompromised integrity.
RESULT: Reduced surface friction.
So with all the above and face plating going over the tranny from front to back its $1400.
Spoke to them today and (Paul) they said he has 2 guys currently running them for 2 yrs. One guy in the 8's and not sure on the other. 4 week before they could do it.
Has anyone ever had the metal treatment done along with the face plating and still broke the tail shaft or other part fairly quick?
PROCESS: Deep freeze process that removes localized stress, alters and stabilizes molecular structure.
RESULT: Dimensional and core stability increasing wear and fracture resistance.
THERMAL STABILIZATION
PROCESS: Heat treat draw to reduce stress.
RESULT: More resistance to surface fractures.
SHOT PEEN
PROCESS: Action that converts tensile stress (bad stress) into compressive stress (good stress).
RESULT: Higher load capacity.
SURFACE ENHANCEMENT
PROCESS: High energy, extremely uniform finishing process that microscopically blends peaks and valleys of surface finishes.
Unlike other surface enhancement processes our method does not alter gear involute form, resulting in uncompromised integrity.
RESULT: Reduced surface friction.
So with all the above and face plating going over the tranny from front to back its $1400.
Spoke to them today and (Paul) they said he has 2 guys currently running them for 2 yrs. One guy in the 8's and not sure on the other. 4 week before they could do it.
Has anyone ever had the metal treatment done along with the face plating and still broke the tail shaft or other part fairly quick?
07-23-10, 12:29 AM
#2
I heard of 2 guys on the forum running the liberty shafts in the stock FD case. Forgot their user names but i'm sure someone will chime in. I don't know of anyone getting the service you stated above but I would think if they make a shaft then that is what you would want from liberty since that is the weak point...
07-23-10, 02:15 AM
#3
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I did this with my turbo II tranny about a year ago and no problems as of yet. There is a thread on here somewhere about it with pics and youtube videos. Basically everything u listed above has been done to it. Im not running crazy power but its definetly getting the job done with ease.
In regards to the time liberty told my tranny builder the same thing and I think it took two months to get my gears back.
In regards to the time liberty told my tranny builder the same thing and I think it took two months to get my gears back.
07-23-10, 09:40 AM
#4
I did see the thread ..elrotary, car shifts very fast! I am very curious to see how it holds up to 500-600rwhp+
and Jay, I did ask about the output shaft and he Paul said with the above treatment it would strengthen the week point on the shaft, he was real familar with the fd tranny. I am sure they could make a billet shaft as he mentioned he could make a front shaft for 700-900.
I know Ari would mod his himself by doing it the oldschool way and only get a weekend or so out of it. So may main question is if the treatment will be enough?
and Jay, I did ask about the output shaft and he Paul said with the above treatment it would strengthen the week point on the shaft, he was real familar with the fd tranny. I am sure they could make a billet shaft as he mentioned he could make a front shaft for 700-900.
I know Ari would mod his himself by doing it the oldschool way and only get a weekend or so out of it. So may main question is if the treatment will be enough?
07-23-10, 10:28 AM
#5
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Speaking from my experience bro, none of that **** works. The stock tranny will still break and if you have liberty install the dog gear set, the case will flex and crack. I cracked the case once and Tommy has cracked it 3 times. No matter what you do, the stock case sucks. You can upgrade the output shaft, but the gears are still weak. If your gonna stick with the drag racing, get a g-force in there. There are plenty of options for you if you still wanna drive it on the street. And the pricing is very reasonable. Call Ari Yallon at RP.
07-23-10, 11:13 AM
#6
ok, thanks Ernie. So what about a TII swap? I know a **** ton of cars going very fast with the TII tranny? Has this been done or can it be done in an FD? Just seeing if there is a cheaper out than a 6-8K gforce-Liberty.
Have to wait till the kiddies are older before I can waste all my $$ on cars..
Have to wait till the kiddies are older before I can waste all my $$ on cars..
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07-23-10, 01:09 PM
#8
Speaking from my experience bro, none of that **** works. The stock tranny will still break and if you have liberty install the dog gear set, the case will flex and crack. I cracked the case once and Tommy has cracked it 3 times. No matter what you do, the stock case sucks. You can upgrade the output shaft, but the gears are still weak. If your gonna stick with the drag racing, get a g-force in there. There are plenty of options for you if you still wanna drive it on the street. And the pricing is very reasonable. Call Ari Yallon at RP.
Ernie, how much power were you making when you broke the case? I know Tommy is making TQ that I will never see! Paul (guy fro Liberty) did say there was a limit and was guessing it to be around 600rwhp and north. So my thoughts are if it can hold 600 or lower rwhp (450tq) for 1400$ it would be a nice tranny you could flat ****.
Also on the gears, once they are treated has anyone had issues with them? I think Zinx had his gears done but not sure on the face plated and I dont think his car is back up and running just yet.
07-23-10, 01:28 PM
#9
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In regards to the gears and the treatment I haven’t had any problems with it. The guy that built the tranny does all the local racing trannys for mainly V8's and he was saying that once I turned up my boost it would have no problem handling 500 whp. 
Thats the plan this winter to turn up the boost, so far though with a peg leg diff and 10 lbs I am managing 12.6. Not bad for a daily. Once I finish the 9 inch (winter) the boost will be going up and that’s when I can really test it.
Is that 1400 with the tranny completely built and ready to put in your car??
Thats the plan this winter to turn up the boost, so far though with a peg leg diff and 10 lbs I am managing 12.6. Not bad for a daily. Once I finish the 9 inch (winter) the boost will be going up and that’s when I can really test it.Is that 1400 with the tranny completely built and ready to put in your car??
07-23-10, 02:14 PM
#10
In regards to the gears and the treatment I haven’t had any problems with it. The guy that built the tranny does all the local racing trannys for mainly V8's and he was saying that once I turned up my boost it would have no problem handling 500 whp. Thats the plan this winter to turn up the boost, so far though with a peg leg diff and 10 lbs I am managing 12.6. Not bad for a daily. Once I finish the 9 inch (winter) the boost will be going up and that’s when I can really test it.
Is that 1400 with the tranny completely built and ready to put in your car??
Thats the plan this winter to turn up the boost, so far though with a peg leg diff and 10 lbs I am managing 12.6. Not bad for a daily. Once I finish the 9 inch (winter) the boost will be going up and that’s when I can really test it.Is that 1400 with the tranny completely built and ready to put in your car??
Paul quoted me $1400. He said send him the tranny and that price was from bellhousing to tail shaft with everything between treated and face plated. Now if there are bad gears or bearings it will be extra. He also said once he pulls it all apart he loosens the tolerances so when it does need to come apart again it is very easy to do with little to no pressing invloved. I am liking this idea more and more. Wonder if a brace could be made to help strengthen the case?
07-23-10, 07:16 PM
#11
Tranny issue is always a problem. All the guys I know personally with g-force trannys that use there cars almost daily on the street with track use either have 2 issues. One is they break and two is they are always tearing them apart for maintenance. The tranny issue is something we just have to bite the bullet with and either deal with a high maintenance trans or break the stock ones when we goto the tracks and just swap.
T56 and the supra trans is a option for street use but the T56 still need to have some mods done to rev and handle the torque and rpm we will put the trans through. The supra trans swap is real expensive. I think its either full out race dog style trans or a throw away fd stock trans. The case is a weak point and with that being said I dont know if I would spend $1400 for internals with the case being a issue. Maybe if you can gather pics from different people who have broken the fd stock trans and see where they break and maybe make a brace or add reinforcment to those areas. But then again what do I really know as i'm in the same dilema...
T56 and the supra trans is a option for street use but the T56 still need to have some mods done to rev and handle the torque and rpm we will put the trans through. The supra trans swap is real expensive. I think its either full out race dog style trans or a throw away fd stock trans. The case is a weak point and with that being said I dont know if I would spend $1400 for internals with the case being a issue. Maybe if you can gather pics from different people who have broken the fd stock trans and see where they break and maybe make a brace or add reinforcment to those areas. But then again what do I really know as i'm in the same dilema...
07-23-10, 07:27 PM
#12
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Ernie, how much power were you making when you broke the case? I know Tommy is making TQ that I will never see! Paul (guy fro Liberty) did say there was a limit and was guessing it to be around 600rwhp and north. So my thoughts are if it can hold 600 or lower rwhp (450tq) for 1400$ it would be a nice tranny you could flat ****.
Also on the gears, once they are treated has anyone had issues with them? I think Zinx had his gears done but not sure on the face plated and I dont think his car is back up and running just yet.
Also on the gears, once they are treated has anyone had issues with them? I think Zinx had his gears done but not sure on the face plated and I dont think his car is back up and running just yet.
07-23-10, 07:59 PM
#13
Tranny issue is always a problem. All the guys I know personally with g-force trannys that use there cars almost daily on the street with track use either have 2 issues. One is they break and two is they are always tearing them apart for maintenance. The tranny issue is something we just have to bite the bullet with and either deal with a high maintenance trans or break the stock ones when we goto the tracks and just swap.
T56 and the supra trans is a option for street use but the T56 still need to have some mods done to rev and handle the torque and rpm we will put the trans through. The supra trans swap is real expensive. I think its either full out race dog style trans or a throw away fd stock trans. The case is a weak point and with that being said I dont know if I would spend $1400 for internals with the case being a issue. Maybe if you can gather pics from different people who have broken the fd stock trans and see where they break and maybe make a brace or add reinforcment to those areas. But then again what do I really know as i'm in the same dilema...
T56 and the supra trans is a option for street use but the T56 still need to have some mods done to rev and handle the torque and rpm we will put the trans through. The supra trans swap is real expensive. I think its either full out race dog style trans or a throw away fd stock trans. The case is a weak point and with that being said I dont know if I would spend $1400 for internals with the case being a issue. Maybe if you can gather pics from different people who have broken the fd stock trans and see where they break and maybe make a brace or add reinforcment to those areas. But then again what do I really know as i'm in the same dilema...
The T56, T5 and G-force are great trans but they have a lot of issues being shifted at 9500+ RPM for an extended period of time.
-J
07-23-10, 08:00 PM
#14
Treated gears or not, once your over 600rwhp its only a matter of time. Don't give a **** whose done what. It ain't gonna last. Im just trying to save you some time and money. The launch is 80% of your possible damage points. From there your torque will make 3rd gear into an underdive pulley. Before I got the g-force, Id get about 4 passes out of a stock trans. Ray had a line of about 10, he'd paint white after I trashed one, lol..
What RPM do you shift at?
07-25-10, 07:37 PM
#15
alot of hate for a tranny that many people don't even have...
My brother's car has gone many passes on stock fd trans and had no issues..
And now he has a custom liberty box with 300m shafts and still no problems..
The liberty(FD) box has no issues being shifted at high rpms..
My brother's car has gone many passes on stock fd trans and had no issues..
And now he has a custom liberty box with 300m shafts and still no problems..
The liberty(FD) box has no issues being shifted at high rpms..
07-25-10, 07:58 PM
#16
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I hope it works well for Anthony bro, but he only has a couple passes on the liberty trans. Unless you change out the case, its gonna flex. With the dog gears they want to expand. With the syncros they won't. The PPG lasted me awhile, but after about 16 passes it cracked. Tommy cracked two more cases. Its nothing to do with the who makes the gear set. Its everything to do with the shitty fd case. Hell Tommy spent an extra $1000 to fortify the case. As soon as he did that, it flexed and cracked in a different spot.
07-25-10, 08:05 PM
#18
I agree the case isn't the strongest. But it does work. Although a 3 rotor might be a bit too much.
I guess time will tell. I've been told stock motors wouldn't hold either and ours is still running fine.
I guess time will tell. I've been told stock motors wouldn't hold either and ours is still running fine.
07-27-10, 09:45 AM
#21
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Treated gears or not, once your over 600rwhp its only a matter of time. Don't give a **** whose done what. It ain't gonna last. Im just trying to save you some time and money. The launch is 80% of your possible damage points. From there your torque will make 3rd gear into an underdive pulley. Before I got the g-force, Id get about 4 passes out of a stock trans. Ray had a line of about 10, he'd paint white after I trashed one, lol..
Over two years of abuse and I still havent broken a stock tranny Ernie. I had three 9s passes on it several low 10s all 1.5 or better 60' s. **** over 100 dyno pulls and well over 600rwhp and plenty of street races, joyrides, practice launches and plently of power shifting. Maybe something was wrong with your step up or your driving to be breaking them every 4 runs. I still have the same tranny only came out because I wanted to give the liberty a try. We'll see how she holds up.
07-27-10, 10:47 AM
#22
pushing s##t up hill
For the record in my car ive done 24 passes at the track, stock s4 box bar syncros removed , all passes in the low 10.30 10.00 zone , most of the launches in the 1.3 sec zone , but im not clutch dumping and ive only at the moment got 450 hp and i only weigh 2100 pounds , i think that's a major factor in box longevity .
as next season im winding in some boost , im hoping to have mid 500 hp maybee a smidge over 600.
I am 100% sure i will smash the box
, but id still spend the small outlay on it if i could. Anything for a better time at the track
07-27-10, 12:21 PM
#23
Running a little higher tire pressure and setting the clutch to slip a little will help the stocker last longer too, but eventually something will break no matter what kind of tranny or what brand. Racing ain't cheap, so if your broke, find another sport/hobby. LOL
07-27-10, 04:35 PM
#25
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