New Rotor technology
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11-25-08, 10:11 PM
#182
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The rotor looks awesome!
There is only a 2.5- 3lbs difference between the standard (unlightened) and aluminium rotors, that's not very much!
You have to realise that the only way to make HP with this configuration is to rev it, there ain't many other benefits over the standard cast rotor besides that.
I'm curious to see how it will evolve, I think 2-4k reliable increase would be a great achievement
Also the engine has to be able to breath at those engine speeds, there is no point having the ability to rev >10000rpm when the ports and manifold are
unable to supply the required airflow.
There is only a 2.5- 3lbs difference between the standard (unlightened) and aluminium rotors, that's not very much!
You have to realise that the only way to make HP with this configuration is to rev it, there ain't many other benefits over the standard cast rotor besides that.
I'm curious to see how it will evolve, I think 2-4k reliable increase would be a great achievement
Also the engine has to be able to breath at those engine speeds, there is no point having the ability to rev >10000rpm when the ports and manifold are
unable to supply the required airflow.
Last edited by pmr eng; 11-25-08 at 10:20 PM.
11-25-08, 10:38 PM
#184
Have you ever had a set of rotors lightened and measured the difference in performance and increased reliabilty etc.? It's a huge difference. These rotors have allready shown their difference power wise on a boosted application where it's not normal to see much gain. I can only imagine the difference on a NA application.
The rotors can be lightened much more. There's a lot left to be machined. Getting the counter weight correct is the tricky part. At the current weight not even the lightest factory part can be machined safely. Billet counter weights are in development presently.
11-25-08, 10:59 PM
#185
Not very much! You're kidding right?
Have you ever had a set of rotors lightened and measured the difference in performance and increased reliabilty etc.? It's a huge difference. These rotors have allready shown their difference power wise on a boosted application where it's not normal to see much gain. I can only imagine the difference on a NA application.
The rotors can be lightened much more. There's a lot left to be machined. Getting the counter weight correct is the tricky part. At the current weight not even the lightest factory part can be machined safely. Billet counter weights are in development presently.
Have you ever had a set of rotors lightened and measured the difference in performance and increased reliabilty etc.? It's a huge difference. These rotors have allready shown their difference power wise on a boosted application where it's not normal to see much gain. I can only imagine the difference on a NA application.
The rotors can be lightened much more. There's a lot left to be machined. Getting the counter weight correct is the tricky part. At the current weight not even the lightest factory part can be machined safely. Billet counter weights are in development presently.
11-25-08, 11:42 PM
#186
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Not very much! You're kidding right?
Have you ever had a set of rotors lightened and measured the difference in performance and increased reliabilty etc.? It's a huge difference. These rotors have allready shown their difference power wise on a boosted application where it's not normal to see much gain. I can only imagine the difference on a NA application.
The rotors can be lightened much more. There's a lot left to be machined. Getting the counter weight correct is the tricky part. At the current weight not even the lightest factory part can be machined safely. Billet counter weights are in development presently.
Have you ever had a set of rotors lightened and measured the difference in performance and increased reliabilty etc.? It's a huge difference. These rotors have allready shown their difference power wise on a boosted application where it's not normal to see much gain. I can only imagine the difference on a NA application.
The rotors can be lightened much more. There's a lot left to be machined. Getting the counter weight correct is the tricky part. At the current weight not even the lightest factory part can be machined safely. Billet counter weights are in development presently.
There is definite potential with those rotors and they have proven it!
The power increase can be associated with the compression ratio increase, the re-tuning to accompany the ratio change, rpm increase and who knows what else (my guess is the rpm increase).
Why was there little or no increase in torque?
There is very little benefit over stock expect the potential increase in engine speeds
11-25-08, 11:46 PM
#187
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1.7lbs or 0.77kg is not a vast reduction, I'm sure this will change though
11-25-08, 11:50 PM
#188
The rotor looks awesome!
There is only a 2.5- 3lbs difference between the standard (unlightened) and aluminium rotors, that's not very much!
You have to realise that the only way to make HP with this configuration is to rev it, there ain't many other benefits over the standard cast rotor besides that.
There is only a 2.5- 3lbs difference between the standard (unlightened) and aluminium rotors, that's not very much!
You have to realise that the only way to make HP with this configuration is to rev it, there ain't many other benefits over the standard cast rotor besides that.
Also, I hate to bust your little wizzard ball, but reving an engine "higher" is no where near the only way to see benifits. It is MORE important and you will see bigger gains by having a "faster" reving engine through the rpm range rather than just reving it higher (given your burn rate, combustion chamber design, ignition system, intake and exhaust ports/runners/[valves] are engineered accordingly for the application). Yes we most definitely WILL see a majore differnce and advantage in being able to turn more RPMs by using these rotors. But "RPMs" is most certainly NOT the deciding factor in making power. Sheeeesh......
-J
11-26-08, 12:24 AM
#190
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That is one of the most ignorant things that I've heard in a long time.... Here is what I wan't you to do: Go to the gym, walk over to the girlEE section and pick up a 3lbs weight. Get a feel for it...get to know it...Because I don't think you have a clue how much 3lbs is.
-J
-J
It is MORE important and you will see bigger gains by having a "faster" reving engine through the rpm range
Well that's how dyno's work, measures the applied torque on the motor via the load cell and the acceleration of the roller
rather than just reving it higher (given your burn rate, combustion chamber design, ignition system, intake and exhaust ports/runners/[valves] are engineered accordingly for the application)
Yes we most definitely WILL see a majore differnce and advantage in being able to turn more RPMs by using these rotors
11-26-08, 07:34 AM
#191
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11-26-08, 07:55 AM
#192
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back to the thread, 6lbs total weight saved on the rotating mass is quite a lot and will make rev real quick, should sound awesome on NA all Motor
11-26-08, 08:27 AM
#193
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Hmm this seams interesting to put in my 4 rotor NA engine that is beeing built. But how will the rotors handle heat over time and cooling? Is the rotors machined to have oil chambers as on the stock rotors? And will they work on a engine that will be raced for more then 8 seconds at the time :P
This would be interesting to get the RPM's up in the 4 rotor as well. As we will limit it to 9000 rpms with S5 NA rotors and ceramic seals.
My main concern here is cooling and how the aluminum will handle the heat. The loss of 3 lbs of weight pr rotor is quite good.
Im looking forward to see how these rotors will hold up. There is a big problem tho with the rotors and that is that i will need 4 of them and they will be quite expensive :P
JT
This would be interesting to get the RPM's up in the 4 rotor as well. As we will limit it to 9000 rpms with S5 NA rotors and ceramic seals.
My main concern here is cooling and how the aluminum will handle the heat. The loss of 3 lbs of weight pr rotor is quite good.
Im looking forward to see how these rotors will hold up. There is a big problem tho with the rotors and that is that i will need 4 of them and they will be quite expensive :P
JT
11-26-08, 08:56 AM
#194
Hmm this seams interesting to put in my 4 rotor NA engine that is beeing built. But how will the rotors handle heat over time and cooling? Is the rotors machined to have oil chambers as on the stock rotors? And will they work on a engine that will be raced for more then 8 seconds at the time :P
This would be interesting to get the RPM's up in the 4 rotor as well. As we will limit it to 9000 rpms with S5 NA rotors and ceramic seals.
My main concern here is cooling and how the aluminum will handle the heat. The loss of 3 lbs of weight pr rotor is quite good.
Im looking forward to see how these rotors will hold up. There is a big problem tho with the rotors and that is that i will need 4 of them and they will be quite expensive :P
JT
This would be interesting to get the RPM's up in the 4 rotor as well. As we will limit it to 9000 rpms with S5 NA rotors and ceramic seals.
My main concern here is cooling and how the aluminum will handle the heat. The loss of 3 lbs of weight pr rotor is quite good.
Im looking forward to see how these rotors will hold up. There is a big problem tho with the rotors and that is that i will need 4 of them and they will be quite expensive :P
JT
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Speed cost... tell me how much you have $$$$ and I'll tell you how fast you can go...
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11-26-08, 09:54 AM
#195
Rotary Enthusiast
i am assuming these are for drag purposes only ?...has any testing been done for day to day driving , or anything similar ,
The weight saving , to me seems nothing short of awesome , 3lbs is huge , i dont know who keeps saying that , that isnt a lot , ....must not have a lot of knowledge on engine internals
I am just curious if these could handle "light" street use
Very impressive nontheless
The weight saving , to me seems nothing short of awesome , 3lbs is huge , i dont know who keeps saying that , that isnt a lot , ....must not have a lot of knowledge on engine internals
I am just curious if these could handle "light" street use
Very impressive nontheless
11-26-08, 06:32 PM
#196
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Those rotors have a great advantage over the stock ones on a drag car that is reving very high.
But do they realy make a difference on a heavy 8.000rpm street car??
A comparison of torque vs rpm over the stock rotors will help determine their particular intention.
Those light weight rotors are on the safe side at high rpm for sure but without oil cooling will they be able to exceed 9seconds??
Als and E&G almost proved that billet rotors are great for drag use but it is a bit early to discuss about street use.
All the best to the team and hope to hear more good news in the future.
But do they realy make a difference on a heavy 8.000rpm street car??
A comparison of torque vs rpm over the stock rotors will help determine their particular intention.
Those light weight rotors are on the safe side at high rpm for sure but without oil cooling will they be able to exceed 9seconds??
Als and E&G almost proved that billet rotors are great for drag use but it is a bit early to discuss about street use.
All the best to the team and hope to hear more good news in the future.
11-26-08, 06:45 PM
#197
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LOL wow are you serious! aperantly you have no idea what a total of 6 pounds does to a rotating assebly.... its the same thing with piston engines. That MASS rotating at thousands of RPM's multiplies the force on those parts exponentially meaning those 3 pounders all of a sudden DO BECOME 1000KG real fast if not more. if ya want i can get the formulas out for this. its not hard welcome to the world of physics.
z
z
What's the force on the bearing gonna be if a 7lbs aluminium rotor is rotating at 10000rpm with the addition of the counterweight?
Last edited by pmr eng; 11-26-08 at 06:57 PM.
11-26-08, 07:11 PM
#198
There were no survivors
11-26-08, 07:47 PM
#199
Those rotors have a great advantage over the stock ones on a drag car that is reving very high.
But do they realy make a difference on a heavy 8.000rpm street car??
A comparison of torque vs rpm over the stock rotors will help determine their particular intention.
Those light weight rotors are on the safe side at high rpm for sure but without oil cooling will they be able to exceed 9seconds??
Als and E&G almost proved that billet rotors are great for drag use but it is a bit early to discuss about street use.
All the best to the team and hope to hear more good news in the future.
But do they realy make a difference on a heavy 8.000rpm street car??
A comparison of torque vs rpm over the stock rotors will help determine their particular intention.
Those light weight rotors are on the safe side at high rpm for sure but without oil cooling will they be able to exceed 9seconds??
Als and E&G almost proved that billet rotors are great for drag use but it is a bit early to discuss about street use.
All the best to the team and hope to hear more good news in the future.
-J
11-26-08, 09:58 PM
#200
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but please if you want to rephrase your question maybe we could go from there.
z