C4 auto to 13b rew quick question
 

Thinking of running a ford c4 auto in a gslse with a single turbo rew motor for drag racing. I think i need a 20b bell housing but not sure. I also have a gxl 2nd gen auto bellhousing i saved , will it work?

Thats what I am using on mine a 2nd gen bellhousing bolted to the c4 pump , you would need to tig weld the factory boltholes and redrill to match to the c4 tranny .

Here are a few pics also the web where I got my tranny combo from http://nctransmission.com/

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/P4130050.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/P4130051.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/P4130052.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=13BT_Starlet;8088491]Thats what I am using on mine a 2nd gen bellhousing bolted to the c4 pump , you would need to tig weld the factory boltholes and redrill to match to the c4 tranny .



QUOTE]

you will have to grind the tranny case and pan to get the mazda starter to clear..
this is the same setup i have..
what size stall converter are you going to use? i chose a 10" with a 5,500 stall..
my car still isnt running so dont ask how it works , lol

[QUOTE=680RWHP12A;8088602]I don't have that problem with mine , I am using the 2 gen at starter the long skinny one . I went with the 10" also 6,500 stall 550hp to 850hp .

mine either its all in pieces over $9 grands everywhere LOL . This combo has been in the mid to low 8's so I assume its going to work !

here are a vid of c4 rotary powered .

http://southcoastrotary.com.au/wraith.htm

Do you have a picture of your convertor/flex plate ? and the mounting holes from the bell housing to pump ?

looks awesome

if mine runs like that i will shoot myself!
it took 10 seconds just to come up on the converter= race lost

look at the second pic I posted thats the actual bellhousing bolted to the c4 front pump , I will take pics of the converter and flexplate . the engine that I have the tranny bolted to is just a dummy I am going to be using for building the chassis with .

Yeah tell me about it , I dont know what happen to him he stayed at the tree for a while but when he left it went and the best part did not even missed a gear . There a more vids out there of him and other with the c4 set up and they launch hard.

i know what happened, listen to the video, he was ready to go but his car wasnt!.. the motor struggled to come up on the converter, so he sat there and waited till it did come up.. he needs to loosen up the converter or add an 80 shot to get it up :)

I think it was a transbrake issue .I'm going to try on finding the other vids if I do will post them

Thanks for the post , I was trying to find it and no luck .

Thanks for the link and the info! That sounds great ,i have the 2nd gen bell housing ,my REW is an auto motor so it already has a balanced auto counterweight and flexplate.And i saved the auto starter, I also have a C4 that was built for a mustang that was never completed. being dontated by my retired old shool rotary drag racer mentor.He also said there was somebody here in Kansas within a hundred miles of me that is a nationally known custom stall converter builder,I have a streetported motor and leaning towards a gt 35r turbo with1600 injectors and a Microtech L10s. So i guess i have everything but the turbo, fuel upgrade ,and the stall converter.

that video was horrible, it took too long to stall then did a huge wheelie= lost the race twice as bad!!

im not sure about you ... your starter sits on the motor side, so the s4/s5 auto trany bellhousing is not the same......

[QUOTE=13BT_Starlet;8089396]Starlet, can you post a picture of you auto starter? 680 are you sure you are using the auto specific starter? I dont see a problem but i do not have the C4 here to mock it up for clearance.

ill take some pics later today and post them up.. its definatly an auto starter, it runs right into the pan/ case.. i clearenced the pan/case so it fits now..

Thats strange, i wonder why starlets fits with no problem? I hope to get over to where the c4 is today or tomorrow and test fit it. i will take the camera with me and get some shots.

680, who mounted your convertor to your flexplate ? Are you guys able to find decent deals on those convertors, I remember looking before and they were in the $750 range.

i mounted it :)
the converter is a custom unit,(8")it bolts directly to the mazda factory flex plate and there is a pilot that fits perfectly into the back of the e-shaft.. i got a smokin deal on my by a converter genious for $1,300

as far as price converters you get what you pay for, most top dogs are running niel chance or continental converters at around $2,000 a pop.. plan on pulling the converter out to get it set just right too... the niel chance units are a bolt together deal so you can adjust it yourself at the track if you really have to..
remember the converter will make or break your auto setup

not enough stall = too tight, the car will never get into the rpm's to get a good launch
too much stall=too loose, the car will blow through the converter, similar to a slipping clutch..

there are tons of adjustments to be made,stators,pumps,vein pitch,etc, etc..

Well, I meant……………… who fabbed the convertor to the flex plate. Not, who just screwed it to the flexplate. :)

why do I keep mispelling convertor ? what's wrong with me

Here are the pics of the starter bolted the bellhounsing and torque convertor

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...h_P4140056.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...h_P4140055.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...h_P4140054.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...h_P4140053.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...h_P4140057.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...h_P4140058.jpg[/IMG]

Cool pics, you got a picture of the flex plate too ?

Thanks , I do but I forgot to take the pic of it . will take some tomorrow and post them.

Which C4 did you guys use, the one with the big shaft ? What year ?

Besides the transbrake, do you have a list of what internal parts they changed ?

I've seen it happen time and time again with people who have trans brake problems, they have to sit on the brake until boost comes up.

He also confirmed this on ausrotary a long time ago.

How about those pictures of your C4 ? :)

The first gear ration has been change to 2.75 the drums to the six clutches full brgn instead of the thrust washer hd planetary gears PA reverse valve body kevlar bands oil gallerys from pump to valve body has been modified and pump also modified and the list goes on , LOL

Yeah how about some pics of your C4 ? I posted some of mine now is his turn . I will post some of the flexplate some time todat .

So, from the looks of it. They aren't even using a bellhousing adapter right ? They just modified the 2nd gen bell housing to fit the C4 pump ?

I bought a built C4 yesterday, picking it up this weekend. It came out of a 9.2X / 3400 lb nitrous car. He's keeping the transbrake, so I'll need to pick one and also a TC.

It's been built and comes with shift kit, hammer shifter and PTC Performance Torque Converter. But, I won't have any use of that converter so I'll be selling it and buying something else.

What coverter did you buy ? I need to figure that out.

Good to see your still trying!

Find out the ratios in the trannie and all the info you can get and call carribean and get there input they must have some idea on the converter! I would guess 5500/6500 stall but what do i know!:wallbash:

Well, that's the thing.... It's going to be a street car with some occasional wheelie popping at the track. So, ratios will need to be looked at. Not really worried about it, C4 parts are cheap.

Whenever you break your jatco auto in your BLOWN 13B, you'll need something else. This might be an option. It's plenty strong, hell the RENEGADE class has to run C4's, those are 3400 mustangs running 8.50's.

This is the car in that video

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9...41898fyjs1.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/823...03062700ni.jpg

Here is the transmission from that car, it had a 6,000 stall.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...img0632gw8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...img0633qs7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...img0634ck6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...img0635gl8.jpg

No you would not need to use and adapter , the only thing that would need to be done to the bellhousing is relocate the bolt holes . If you are buiyng the tranny w/o the transbrake that means he is taking the valvebody off , is he giving you another one ? try on getting all the info you can on the tranny .

He said he put the stock valvebody back on.

Once it was pulled from the car, it was freshened up (Rebuilt). He mentioned something it having the B&M shift kit, reverse shift patterns, rollerized gearset, hardened input shaft, hammer shifter, alto red clutches and PCT converter. Pretty sure it has the stock servo and pan.

About the adapter, that's probably why I could never find someone who sold a after for years. Because, you don't need one ! :lol:

At some point, do you think you could take a few more closeup pictures of your bellhousing and the bolt holes ? How many of the stock were used and how many had to be drilled ?

Thanks dude !

Sure I can take a close up pic so you can have and idea if I am not mistaken two of the stock are use and the others are drilled . Here is a couple of pis of the flex plate and a 2gen 13b re engine bay pic and a 3rd gen with a 20b this are a couple of the many cars at my friends shop JR Performance and Fabricating who is building my drag engine.He does the steel plates lapping ,milling , ect .
[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/P4180062.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/P4180063.jpg[/IMG]
2nd Gen
[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/P4170059.jpg[/IMG]
Attachment 705082
3rd Gen
[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/P4170061.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks, pictures of the Bellhousing holes will really help. I'm heading over to pick up the transmission today so I'm gonna need to start drilling ! :)

Looks like your buddy has some cool projects !:icon_tup:

13BT_Starlet, did they supply you with a different pilot bearing or are you just using the stock one ?

using the stock one , if you look at the pic I posted of the torque converter you can see it olso the stock bolt pattern too its on the first page of this thread.

This guy also runs a C4, with a 5500 stall.

https://i30.tinypic.com/2rfghet.jpg

https://i30.tinypic.com/egwxgo.jpg

https://i29.tinypic.com/331zhuw.jpg

https://i25.tinypic.com/6s5fux.jpg

https://i30.tinypic.com/vi3pd.jpg

https://i28.tinypic.com/ruv90p.jpg

https://i32.tinypic.com/2n8aqfm.jpg

https://i26.tinypic.com/15oarfl.jpg

Another C4 powered car.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJh-MWUs9mk

So I am looking into this. I have a few questions.. Actually a ton..

First. CAn this be a streetable set up? My goal is to have a setup I can put in for track use that will be a few times a year. So I plan on swaping it back and forth??

What C4 tranny do I want? Any idea of total cost? I guess the stock 3rd gen dif. Would have to go. I couldnt imagine it holding for even a pass. SO will I have to go to a solid rear?

List of what all I would need:

Tranny
TII bell housing (what year-model)?
Starter?
Drive shaft?
TC (from how) I am guessing not your run of the mill Summit stuff?
Transbrake ?? Why is a both trans brake and large TC needed?

His transbrake is working obviously, but you can see that he need his converter needs to be changed.

Thanks Allen

Streetable, yes. Alot of my ford friends run them in their daily drivers.

Total cost ? C4's are cheap, you can pick up a used one for free or buy one for their core price of $80. Then, building them yourself is cheap. Or you can buy one already built (Used) that's cheap. Or, you can buy one from a company already built. You'll think I'm crazy but alot of the fast guys are buying transmissions from Redneck Performance. They sell a package for $1,020 that comes with,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-...mZ310040112265

You'll need to have mounting tabs put on the converter to match the mazda flex plate. Carribean transmission sells the converter that's made for 13B's for $750. So, you could probably pick that transmission up above for $700 or so without the converter and just buy one from carribean.

Anyhow, C4's are cheap and you honestly don't need a completely built C4 to handle 9 second passes from a rotary.

Transbrake isn't needed, you can always leave the line off the foot brake but you can leave much harder on the transbrake. You can always add this down the road.

Answered your question about the TC above.

I beleive any TII bellhousing will work. You'll need a custom drive draft which can be made for $200 from your local driveshaft/tranny shop. 2nd gen starter, flexplate and counter weight will also be needed.

Also, the stock rearend will take more abuse from the C4 than your stock 5 speed since there is less drivetrain shock from a auto.

thanks viking.. I may start collecting this stuff asap. I dont mind buying a good tranny. What about the ones summit sells?

With summit, you'll pay double the price, have sub par customer service and they don't re-flash converters for free like Redneck.

I've seen alot of reviews on Redneck and all have been outstanding. They say the customer service with them is great. Or, you can just buy the complete 13B/C4 transmission kit from carribean for $3,500 :)