MAZDASPEEDFD

iTrader: (1)

Just curious---a friend of mine has asked me to race him a couple of time since he got his bike (R6). I know that I'm no contest for him now, so I just decline whenever he asks. How much of a run can I give him using a stock motor and twins? My good for nothing extended warranty ends next month, so I'm going to start concentrating on giving my FD more ***** to back up its looks.
I currently have a downpipe, catback and intake. Next month I'm looking to buy an IC, and a radiator. By summer, I want a PFC or F-CON (if I can find some technical support).
Also, the FD is my daily driver, so I want to keep the main cat on there (unless the Borla ?XR-1? is as good as I've read/heard they are here on the forum).
Do I need to upgrade the fuel system at this point? Or am I fine just turning up the juice on the computer?
Thanks---Jason

HeffBoost

Just looking at Horsepower to weight you'd need 790.59HP to match a 99 R6. No chance.

Based on:

99 R6 HP-120, Wet Wt.-425, HP/Lb-0.282
?? FD HP-255, Wet?Wt.-2,800, HP/Lb-0.091
Super FD HP-790.59, Wet?Wt.-2,800, HP/Lb-0.282

Some others for comparison:

00 F4i HP-97.4, Wet?Wt.-428, HP/Lb-0.227
99 Hayabusa HP-156.1, Wet?Wt.-550, HP/Lb-0.283
02 R1 HP-136.8, Wet?Wt.-441, HP/Lb-0.310
99 Ducati 996 HP-109.8, Wet?Wt.-478, HP/Lb-0.229

Red-Rx7

You only have 1/4 the equation.

Missing some factors:

- Race from a stop?
- Race from a roll?
- Race starting at what speed?
- Race ending at what speed?
- Is it windy outside?

Weight and HP do play a large part in the formula. But, from a roll onwards, the bikes worst friend is coefficient drag.

Have you ever raced a 600cc bike from a 60 punch?

Don't get me wrong, bikes are just that; bikes. Extremely fast, etc. But, depending on the racing specifications depends on what power you need.

Mike

GlennStile

Think english

throw some twisty bends in to your race and kiss that bike goodbuy.

you might also want to get your car in the gym , cuting some weight from that rather bloated 2800lb car will give you a much greater accel.

my se7en (lotus-ish) will weigh around 5-600kg and trounce just about any bike even with a moderatly tuned 13b on the bends or straights.

power is'nt everything, i know you guys dont have roads like ours but im sure there are some bends out there (somewhere?)

Dougie_fresh_007

here is what id do, go and find what that bike does in the quarter, u can find specs, and then find how much hp u need to match or beat that
also remember racing bikes is much harder than cars for drag, or at lease tahts my oppionon.

Eggie

Hmmm... Do these vehicles drive themselves?

Assuming a 175 pound driver:
R6 = .200 HP/lb
FD = .086 HP/lb

Now the FD needs only 595 hp; that's the cheapest 200 hp anyone ever got!

Quivver

A bike will always will from a stand still, but offer to race him from a 50 roll with the right amount of HP. Night racing is huge here in tampa and there is a bridge with little trraffic that everyone races over at night and my friend takes his Supra out there and races bikes from a 50 roll and usally wins if its a 900 and under.

suprfast

"throw some twisty bends in to your race and kiss that bike goodbuy."

you have to be kidding me right. there is no way a stock bike can not out handle a car at a track or mountain twisties. now an autoX course for sure. now if we compare an F1 car to miguel duhamels bike, the f1 will win.
kris

Ryde _Or_Die

Gandy

93redFD

350rwhp will give him a run for his money. Bikes arnt near as fast as people think they are. Go from a 65-75 mph roll and you should have good chance. I raced a zx7r at 40 mph roll and we stayed dead even, I was running 10-12 psi with a t-78, thats somewhere around 350rwhp. Although the guy wasnt a very good rider.

black99

There are too many variables. As others have said your best chances are from a higher speed roll. I've messed with a couple bikes 600cc's-900cc's from a roll and have to say that some of them mess up shifting/seemed like they were in the wrong gear from time to time and others just weren't what I was expecting out of a bike. I messed with some from a 35-40 mph roll and have to admit they're strong in the upper rpm's(of course). Can't say I've ever "stomped" or "won" against a bike but it's fun messing with them as most will give you a little respect for trying and hanging for a little. Hey I say go for it. It won't hurt to say you lost to a bike but it'll hurt him alot more to say he lost to a car.

Bridgeported

Although racing from a 50 mph roll is still a race, I don't consider it a "real race." For me, I'll race from a roll, but if it's close, then we stop and go drag style, because to me, that is what counts. Most people driving street cars and bikes don't brag about their vehicles 60-120 mph time compared to 1/4 mile times.

Race from a roll if you want a chance. Especially if it's a 600 or 750, then it's a lot easier from a roll because they don't have the torque punch of the 900-1300cc bikes.

From a stop bikes are just to insane to mess with (usually )

Speaking of taking him in the twisties... you might not want to do that! Did anyone watch the test on Speedvision where Kevin Schwantz tests a brand new z06 against a brand new gsxr-1000? In every performance test (acceleration, braking, track course, etc) the bike wins.

HeffBoost

Good point. The operator's weight hurts the bike more. 595 does sound a little more reasonable.

I had a good reason for saying "Just looking at power to weight", being the myriad of variables.

How many of you guys saying cars (excepting F1 etc. where downforce plays a huge role) are faster in the corners, have ridden a modern sportbike?

Bikes do have a problem with their CD. You run into a wall.

GlennStile

Christ man, Wake up and smell the cornflakes.

I have had the good fortune to race a megabusa round a track against many sports bikes and thrashed them on the corners, lap times approx. 5 seconds ahead of most and you should have seen the R3's


I have , many times and yes they do corner very well but take a car such as the westfield or caterham 7's and they don't stand a chance especially with the fat blobs you generally see riding them

Eggie

Fair enough, but we're talking about normal drivers here, not Schwantz, Spencer, Lawson... The average rider is not going to push a bike as hard as a car, especially on public streets. Don't you think it's easier to get 95% of the cornering out of a car?

Node

iTrader: (1)

Eggie, theyre both hard to push to the edge.
But I would say bikes are far more agile and would destroy in the "twisties".

KneeDragonR1

An FD vs. a bike in the twisties with expert driver/rider, the FD will lose.

However, riding a bike to that skill level is well beyond that of the average street squid. In most cases the non-race driver will beat the non-race rider in the twisties.

Roll on or drag – The R6 tops out at 160 mph and 11.25 sec @130 second ¼ mile.
How much do you want to spend?

KneeDragonR1

HeffBoost

There's a lot more room for error in a car.

KneeDragonR1

The pure technical skill is not easier on racing a car or bike, but there is a difference.

It is like one guy saying I can run faster than another. However one guy is on a 12” narrow sidewalk and the other guy is on a 12” skyscraper beam.

The skyscraper guy may be faster, but will probably lose even though they are both just running.


KneeDragonR1



KneeDragonR1

Wargasm

I have raced a few fast bikes on the street and I can say that I am ALL OVER THEM in the tight turns... I don't care what they will do on this track or with that rider... Me in my car vs every bike I've raced on turns = bike guy can't keep up.

Probably because they don't want to lose it on their bike and hit a tree

Brian

GlennStile

Fact: I have pulled 1.47lateral g in a lotus elise, you will not do this on a bike.

suprfast

well i have seen my buddy take a porsche 911 turbo in the mountains. this was just a straight line in the upper 140's but he pulled from the 911 damn fast. my buddy is about one step away from racing AMA. he is that good(as he has been talking to many ama riders and also complimented on his riding). there is no way in hell i would be able to keep up with him in the mountains in my car while he is on his 954rr. i dont consider myself a rookie, nor a pro, but bikes when left in a power range will kill cars time and again
kris

Node

iTrader: (1)

GlennStile: You kick ***, very lucky to drive one of those

Ryde _Or_Die

I never understood why. When I see bikes at the drag strip, they get smoked by cars the first almost half of the race. Bikes aren't easy to launch.

Node

iTrader: (1)

But when the bike has 100rwhp and weighs around 500lbs with driver it launchs like a bat out of hell. Hence their sickening stock 0-60mph times
Streetbikes suffer at speed. And the hp doesn't matter AS much.
You'll still need lots of hp at a roll.