crispeed

You do know that apex seals can break without any traces of knock and it's one of the reasons why knock detection don't help the majority of blown rotaries. When apex seals grow from excessive heat the ends snap off mainly the side with the end piece when dealing with the stock design apex seals.

phoenix7

which is why the "unbreakable seals" title intrigued me. Anything that can prolong the life of the rotary is worth the money. SO far it seems like the Ceramic seals can take a lot of abuse and I'm still watching this thread for more info.

crispeed

Same for most steel ones also.
Then there are the ones that only bend/warp and the end results are the same meaning engine rebuild anyway.
It's all application dependant.
You gotta choose what best suit your needs.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I'm doing knock detection to guard against bad gas because I am using pump+methanol as opposed to race fuel, and besides the knock light + other components to make it work with the haltech only cost about 100 dollars a (used), and should make tuning a bit safer. It also has the headphone out.

The methanol should take care of the growing due to excessive heat.

Correct me if I'm wrong but ceramic seals shouldn't have the issue with temp growth that metal seals would have, provided the clearance's are correct.

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

crispeed

Ceramic is more tolerant of heat and do allow you to run a little more on the edge tune up wise but that's also the reason why some still get in trouble because of a weak tune up.

crispeed

I like the term 'Banana' as patented by 'Rice Racing'!

ZAN_TUNING

iTrader: (1)

doesn't Anthony Rodriguez use the PTS seals with great success? i spoke with him a couple times about these and he seems to have made it through a couple full seasons with the same set where as before he was replacing them a little more than often?

just curious as i have thought about trying these out

blitzboy

I mananged to crack and warp a set of Aviation seals on a rear rotor couple years ago due to a fuelling problem

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

So on the PTS web site some of the testimonials talk about bending them back straight but PTS doesnt talk about it at all... Is that really what you do with these?

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Crispeed's got it nailed, it depends on application. I have ran both PTS and SCR seals and we have ran ceramics here as well, though not NRS's. A lot of proven fast cars have ran all three companies seals, I think they all can perform somewhat well and have have some weaknesses as well. We didn't put as many miles on the PTS's as the SCR's (that customers choice)but I can say with all time we did have on the SCR's housing wear didn't seem to be a issue. The abuse they took (some one purpose some unexpected) was pretty impressive. I would like to get them in a actual track car not a drag car and see what a full season does to them. I think the biggest benefit to a seal that bends instead of breaks goes to the little guy or street guy. While they still have to rebuild they are only replacing the seal and that is real savings for the little guy, no housing or turbine replacement. The only weakness a ceramic seal has is the cost. They are a better solution all around from a material standpoint.



~S~

kabooski

True that. I rather have a seal bend then have it break and ruin my engine parts.
How long does it take to "rebuild"? less then half the time it takes to overhaul a piston engine....I have seen what ceramics do to internals and turbos when they break...It is 2x worse then a OEM apex seals damage

I know quite a few 7 second rotaries running RA seals
and C.G used Atkins but could not run the numbers and blamed it on the second RX7
inability to reduce weight. Which was disproved by Ortiz's Turbo II

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

So, out of the "unbreakable seals".

Which are the best, and why ?

PTS
SCR
RA Super Seals

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

I guess i will be the first to say, "best for what"?

price
wear characteristics of seal
wear characteristics on housings
quickness to seat in
damaged caused if they fail
availability

To my knowledge there is not one seal that can do it all. You just have to pick the seal that best suits your application.

phoenix7

I think the best would be wear characteristics. We all should expect damage if tuned improperly but if it's tuned correctly and is well taken care of then the real question should be:

Which seal causes the least amount of wear and tear on a motor __insert BOOST/the abuse the motor has to put up with___?


no?

kabooski

I have not seen a single post stating that the wear marks of the RA seals
have effected there compression to a bad point.....I know I've used RA seals for couple of years now and a motor I used for a year and half had some wear "pattern"
on them BUT not once did I have a issue with the cars operation
all my vac readings where the same power levels felt the same......

Any pics of PTS, SCR, ,Goopy seals (Racing application) housings
after some use 3 months+
BTW
If your intentions are for a stock/daily driver/ lightly mod'd STICK TO OEM

I'm just glad we have choices and the aftermarket engine parts for our engines, are getting better and better
leaving us with the possibilities to reach power levels unseen

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

idk, my experience has always been with the RA seals (because I'm poor), and so far I have 36,600+ miles on them and they survived a stainless steel auxillary sleeve pin tumbling around the front rotor and destroyed the housing, front side housing, and punctured the rotor as well as denting it all up. The seals had tiny scuff marks on the front ones and were still straight as an arrow. Some of eals were stuck however, as well as a corner seal or 2. That was when they had 29,000 miles on them. I'm still using those seals in my current 4-port N/A and I still have not had a problem. My current setup actually runs way BETTER than my old setup. Maybe I'll do a compression check just because I'm curious about the current numbers.
I personally like my poor man's seals.
As for wear? I don't remember. I originally used a pair of used series 6 housings I got from Pineapple Racing like 3 years ago that had some nasty chatter marks. When I looked at them after I had it apart after 29,000 miles, they looked the same to me. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the rear section.

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

Hey Kabooski, when I got my car tuned he showed me a set of seals that he recommended. They were black in color but they used the stock OE corner seal piece. Were those the super seals or not. I thought they were till he said they come from Australia.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Best for me ?

Which one takes the most HP/Abuse before bending ?

I don't mind pulling motors apart, I just hate replacing rotors/housings and turbos.

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

http://www.rotormaster.com.au/subPage.asp?cid=12


???

dial8

iTrader: (4)

+1. Replaceing housings gets old. Fast.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i'm glad to see that one of the bigger dogs realizes (or remembers) what it's like to be a small fish. this is the real interest for someone like me. i'd much rather replace a $200-300 seal than a housing (or two), rotor(s) and turbine. thanks for saying it because i doubt if the question might get addressed otherwise.

philiptompkins

iTrader: (4)

cool, I'm glad to hear sometimg positive about them, I''ve had them in my motor for a while now and it still seems strong, just wondering how long its going to last.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

To be honest I look at it from both sides, from a customer standpoint should a issue arise it saves you money in the long run. Guys who build their own motors already save money on the labor, it's the cost on the parts that hurts. Guys who rely on others to build their motors it helps keep the costs down. They pay labor and for a replacement seal and that's it. From a shop standpoint it's a win, because you don't have to tell the guy hey you took out your turbo, your housing, and/or damaged your rotor. Keep in mind they are not the be all end all of seals, no seal is. If you have a guy such as crispeed tuning your car after he built your car, something such as NRS's are a great idea. Ceramic is a superior material by far. But if your someone such as Eric, who builds his own stuff and is on a budget. It is very hard to deny the savings to that type of guy. Personally if your only running a simple street car with moderate power. The Mazda 2 piece seals are a very good product.

~S~

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Crispeed also brought up another good point, your seal didn't break but now you will start to find out where your next weakness is.

~S~