sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

i m trying to get more info on these rotors actually
how much better are they compare to the stock one, if any

Nihilanthic

seems to me like its set up for lower comprsesion.

The rotor moves the same distance overall, so the displacement wont change.

theflatlander

iTrader: (3)

that rotor is modified from CLR Motorsports. Look on the bottom of the page for rx7tt95 thread on his CLR motor....

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

contact CLR Motorsports and i believe they are in Miami.

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

yea i've read that thread
i m just wondering if someone else have some more info on them
i've seen different type of scallope as well, like trimmed in the middle instead of the top

RETed

The question would be...why???
Is this some kinda expensive race motor?


-Ted

bill Shurvinton

Port timing. You get close to the timing of a bridgeport without the porting.

Same principle as the renesis using much smaller ones to get IO at 3ADTC compared to 32 ATDC for previous generation.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

Port timing first, I agree that it lowers compression a bit too, and lower weight

GT1-20b

To everyone who's expressed interest on the CLR. Rotors.
The following is a bit of history, background, development, and advantages of the product.

These Rotors are a result of years of R&D on both Hi-output Turbocharged and NA. Rotary engines.

Originally intended for ITA competition, an idea to gain port timing was developed.
Once proven, it quickly found it's way into and adopted by certain SCCA
E-Prod. & GT-3 National Champions.


CLR's development and applications of this technology dates back to 1988'

Now that Mazda has applied this tech. to the Rx8 for the same basic porpose, suddenly the "CAT WAS LET OUT OF THE BAG" .
We were forced to go public with information about this tech.
Reputable engine builders have reported averages of 25 Hp. gains on NA. Side port engines

Our first attempt with "Rotor Port Phazing" on Turbo engines came in 94'.
We saw a tremendous increase in performance, especially when conbined with properly sized Turbos & Injectors.
Further testing PROVED, radical increases in VE. at higher engine speeds.

The Rotor pictured above, resulted from a request to develop a "Reliable", daily driven, 600 BHp. Street engine to run on Pump Gas.
The outcome neted several street cars runing excess of 22 Psi. Boost, and well over
500 RWHp., ON PUMP GAS, for years on end !
All who have tryed these Rotors w/ Turbos have reported massive power gains over their previous engine setups.

Within the last few years, 3 of the top 4 Rotary Drag Racers in the country have broken many a record runing these Rotors.
One went on to win the NHRA Outlaw RWD. National Chanpionship.

Advantages of the product are:

a) A thicker, more stable & durable casting, cloned to REW. weight.
Staticly balanced to the gram, and Dynamicly balanced to work w/ REW.
Counter weights.
b) Clearenced for sustained Hi-Rpm operation.
c) Rotor port phazing, otherwise known as "scalops" allow for earlier and longer
Intake port timing duration.
The "scalops" open the Intake port, while the Rotor is physically on an
otherwise MUCH LATER crank angle. Effectivly blooking the exhaust port by the
Rotor's flanks, adjesent to the chamber. Thereby significantly reducing Exhaust
cross flow contamination into the Intake cycle, due to backpresure.
Delivering lower EGT's, & Charge Air Temps. which yeild a dencer charge.
d) Last, a Lower Compression ratio, tolerates much higher Boost levels and
further supresses heat and presure induced Detonation or Pre-ignition.

There are those who will argue that lower compression yeilds a "softer" bottom end and throttle responce,...........
Not the case, these are TUNING ISSUES that can be "Maped out" with proper understanding of what a low comp. engine requires while off boost.
With today's readily available EMS's. and tunig capabilities, that's no longer a valid point.
On the flip side of that argument, a single Pound of more boost, will MORE THAN make up for any lack of bottom end. Add in the the benefit of running MORE Boost, MORE often, for MORE sustained periods of time. Most will agree, their is NO argument.

The "Scalop Rotor" modifications is only effective on Side port engines.
And offer absolutly NO ADVANTAGE on full Peripheral Port configurations.

For further information, contact CLR. Motorsports, or send a PM.


GT1-20b
CLR. Motorsports Inc.
Miami, Fl.

RETed

Any problems with excessive blow-by?


-Ted

sub9lulu

iTrader: (7)

thx for the info

rx7tt95

I'd have to say no Ted, there really haven't been any tuning anomalies compared to normal rotors. I'm discovering that poor gas mileage, at least on the highway, is fantastic. As good as it's ever been, even with the stock engine and turbos. I'm guestimating in the mid to high 20's running a mid 15:1 a/f ratio at 85mph with the a/c running. Excessive blowby would register not only as overly rich a/f ratios but poor mileage as well.

GT1-20b

Ted,

A very good question,
Allow me to clear up some mis-understandings.

Blow by is a function of Seal Clearance,( gaps) & Time (Rpm)

On the other hand, Timing is timimg. and the cuts, or scalops, just alter port timing.

If a motor IS properly sealed, then their " should be" no "blow by."


Full P.P. Dry Sumped Race engines with the MAXIMUM of port timimg & overlap, cannot be allowed to have any "blow by" ......they SIMPLY CAN'T. Otherwise they would presurize the reservoir. (Dry Sump Tank), and **** Oil ALL over the car & track.

Blow by into the crank case, is caused by compression passing through the seals. Mainly the clearance between the side seals, and corner seals. Entering the Oil pan.,and presurizing the crank case. Again a function of exsesive side to corner clearance, or simply bad side seals. In esence, lack of CONTAINING THE COMPRESSION, or combustion pressure.
Chamber to chamber Gas transfer, also known as a form of blow-by, in Rotaries. Is a function time. When the lengh of the Apex seal, vs. the wigth of the Rotor Housings or gaps left by the lack of attention to clearances at the time of bluepringting, does NOT produce a hermetic seal. Or as close to one as possible. Thereby separating adjesent chambers.
When complete chamber separation fails to take place, Exhaust from the expanding chamber, transfers into the working chamber, causing an early light off or "Detonation"
On the previous cycle, Ignition expansion from the working chamber, bleeds in to the Intake cycle, lighting it off, causing "Pre-Ignition".
This explanation descrives the effects of excesive seal clearance, allowed beyond tolerences. A case of Cutting corners. (COST.) or simply a lack of knowhow, or attention to detail.

Detonation or Pre-Igniotion, on properly sealed Turbo engines, DUE TO: Excesivly Hi Intake presures, Temps, or cross Contamination, due to Hi back presure and the lack of Charge Air temp. control, is another subject all on it's own, and NOT to be comfused with this topic.

Elevated BMEP's due to Boost, & associated Inlet Temps, bring on their own set of rules & circumstances, that govern their outcome, and accelerate the procces to the point of role reversion.

A Topic for another day.

Thank You.

Syonyk

Do I want to know how much those rotors cost?

Looks like a great idea, well executed!

-=Russ=-

RETed

Great replies - thanx guys!

I was worried the side seal might be compromised cause the "land" is significantly narrowed.
It sounds like if you "built to tolerance" this is not a problem.

Kudos on release this kinda information to the general public, as this must've been one helluva secret prior!


-Ted

Ronald E. Jacques

Good question. Is it worth the cost for just a street driven N/A? I'm only looking for about 200 at the wheels, but with stock reliability ( or, um, hopefully better than my stock reliability!) When I am ready to street port I was looking for something like this.

You guys really know your ****.

Ronald E. Jacques

Oops.

Or, are they even being marketed to the general public at all?

GT1-20b

Yes,

We offer these Rotors and many other services to the general public.

Any one interested can contact us at: CLR. Motorsports Inc. Miami Fl. (305) 235- 3696

We specialize in performance Rotary engine development. From modifing customer supplied parts, balancing, porting, machine work, custom manifolding & fabrication, to specialized racing parts, and engines.

Regards,

GT1-20b

Kenku

Ohhhhh, they get down to FD rotor weights... that's neat, I didn't get why you started off with S4 ones before.

Bluem

do these lower compression???can series 5 n/a rotors be modified like this???

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

If you read the thread, you would have seen 3 times that YES it does lower compression. Can s5 n/a be used? Good question, but I believe the whole reason for using the s4 stuff is so you can still use s5,s6 counter weights and also because the s4 rotors had a better and thicker casting to begin with.

~Mike..............

Bluem

wonder how much hp they can add to s bridgeported engine?

BATMAN

Boy, that rotor would look soo sexy ceramic coated chrome.

razorback

i was just thinking to myself after seeing some pistons that could be "cut into" to lower compression ratios, if something similiar could be done to rotors to get the same outcome. now my questions are answered.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

just use rx8 rotors! they're lighter, better balanced, 10:1 CR, cheaper than the 9.7:1 2nd gen's rotors and already have the cut at the flank! You can send them out to be further lightened and maybe enlarge the flank cut a little cuz it's small.