Success stories with the Atkins' Rotary 2 piece 2mm Apex Seal?
03-17-02, 02:04 PM
#26
Gaijin Racing
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Originally posted by peejay
$70 each!!!! I KNEW I should have bought some earlier!
Looks like I'm DEFINITELY going to be putting Hurleys in my next rebuild!
$70 each!!!! I KNEW I should have bought some earlier!
Looks like I'm DEFINITELY going to be putting Hurleys in my next rebuild!
03-18-02, 06:15 AM
#28
Old [Sch|F]ool
Originally posted by Kurgan
either that or don't put 3mm seals in!!!
either that or don't put 3mm seals in!!!
Fortunately, 12A seals are still $33 apiece
Last edited by peejay; 03-18-02 at 06:48 AM.
03-20-02, 08:36 AM
#29
Rotary Freak
this might help
I have used Dave Atkins seals with very good results. I have used Hurley engineering apex seals with very good results. But both of this seals under the same condition(EGT's A/F ratio, Boost levels, fuel octane, ignition timing) have failed vs the stock 2mm apex seals. If your going to run a turbo application, Nick there is no substitute for the Mazda Factory Apex seals... Is it really cost effective to save some money with apex seals? when later u run a little lean and warpped the after market apex seals and have to tear the 20B apart? Naa I say stock 2mm seals are worth the difference in dollars. I mean," Different strokes for different folks" just some of my personal experiences.. Stock 2mm rocks!!!!!!!
03-20-02, 08:59 AM
#30
Lives on the Forum
Interesting comment...
I was always critical of the aftermarket seals, just because out testing shows the stock Mazda apex seal are pretty fancy.  Rockwell harness test on the stock Mazda seals show them to be hardened (60 Rockwell) at the leadings tips, but the backside of the seal shows a lowly 40 Rockwell harness.  It implies that the stock steel seals are electron beam hardened (cannot confirm this, but the metallurgist strongly suspects it).  I don't think any of the aftermarket apex seals have this fancy hardened treatment; the literature from Hurley points to their seals being "softer than stock" pretty much seals it...(no pun intended)
-Ted
I was always critical of the aftermarket seals, just because out testing shows the stock Mazda apex seal are pretty fancy.  Rockwell harness test on the stock Mazda seals show them to be hardened (60 Rockwell) at the leadings tips, but the backside of the seal shows a lowly 40 Rockwell harness.  It implies that the stock steel seals are electron beam hardened (cannot confirm this, but the metallurgist strongly suspects it).  I don't think any of the aftermarket apex seals have this fancy hardened treatment; the literature from Hurley points to their seals being "softer than stock" pretty much seals it...(no pun intended)
-Ted
03-20-02, 11:54 AM
#31
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Re: this might help
Originally posted by Judge Ito
I have used Dave Atkins seals with very good results. I have used Hurley engineering apex seals with very good results. But both of this seals under the same condition(EGT's A/F ratio, Boost levels, fuel octane, ignition timing) have failed vs the stock 2mm apex seals. If your going to run a turbo application, Nick there is no substitute for the Mazda Factory Apex seals... Is it really cost effective to save some money with apex seals? when later u run a little lean and warpped the after market apex seals and have to tear the 20B apart? Naa I say stock 2mm seals are worth the difference in dollars. I mean," Different strokes for different folks" just some of my personal experiences.. Stock 2mm rocks!!!!!!!
I have used Dave Atkins seals with very good results. I have used Hurley engineering apex seals with very good results. But both of this seals under the same condition(EGT's A/F ratio, Boost levels, fuel octane, ignition timing) have failed vs the stock 2mm apex seals. If your going to run a turbo application, Nick there is no substitute for the Mazda Factory Apex seals... Is it really cost effective to save some money with apex seals? when later u run a little lean and warpped the after market apex seals and have to tear the 20B apart? Naa I say stock 2mm seals are worth the difference in dollars. I mean," Different strokes for different folks" just some of my personal experiences.. Stock 2mm rocks!!!!!!!
Anyhow, I've already ordered the seals... I guess I'm a guinea pig in a lot of ways right now, we'll see how they work.... lets hope for the best.I didn't base the decision solely on the cost of the seals, but it was a factor... I had heard many good things about them (from you too
), so I decided to give them a try... what the hell, why not We'll see how it goes. I'm glad that this thread has so much good information in it. It kind of surprised me that it drew as much attention as it did... maybe someone should put this in the archive when the time comes....
Thanks for everyones input....
Nick, with a 20b and 2mm Atkins seals.
03-23-02, 09:43 AM
#33
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Just a quick update. I cancelled my order for the Atkin's seals for my 20B.... after talking with Ito and a couple of other BIG TIME drag racers, they told me of several problems that these seals can have, and several successes...
First off, you should only use them in new rotors (according to Carlos). Used rotors, ESPECIALLY the 89-92 T2 rotors that are made up a softer material tend to slightly bend at the end of each rotor... allowing the seal to slightly move and then snap into what looks like a 3 piece seal, but is effectively a blown engine.
Secondly, if you use these seals on an 89-92 engine, it is recommended by Dave Atkin's to use the 3mm variety (presumedebly [sp] for the same reason as stated above). I don't want 3mm seals.
Carlos swears by the Atkins' seals, but he too says to use new rotors... that ain't in my budget
I'm going with the stock 2mm seals.
First off, you should only use them in new rotors (according to Carlos). Used rotors, ESPECIALLY the 89-92 T2 rotors that are made up a softer material tend to slightly bend at the end of each rotor... allowing the seal to slightly move and then snap into what looks like a 3 piece seal, but is effectively a blown engine.
Secondly, if you use these seals on an 89-92 engine, it is recommended by Dave Atkin's to use the 3mm variety (presumedebly [sp] for the same reason as stated above). I don't want 3mm seals.
Carlos swears by the Atkins' seals, but he too says to use new rotors... that ain't in my budget
I'm going with the stock 2mm seals.
03-23-02, 08:25 PM
#35
Rotary Freak
very good
Originally posted by Kurgan
Just a quick update. I cancelled my order for the Atkin's seals for my 20B.... after talking with Ito and a couple of other BIG TIME drag racers, they told me of several problems that these seals can have, and several successes...
First off, you should only use them in new rotors (according to Carlos). Used rotors, ESPECIALLY the 89-92 T2 rotors that are made up a softer material tend to slightly bend at the end of each rotor... allowing the seal to slightly move and then snap into what looks like a 3 piece seal, but is effectively a blown engine.
Secondly, if you use these seals on an 89-92 engine, it is recommended by Dave Atkin's to use the 3mm variety (presumedebly [sp] for the same reason as stated above). I don't want 3mm seals.
Carlos swears by the Atkins' seals, but he too says to use new rotors... that ain't in my budget
I'm going with the stock 2mm seals.
Just a quick update. I cancelled my order for the Atkin's seals for my 20B.... after talking with Ito and a couple of other BIG TIME drag racers, they told me of several problems that these seals can have, and several successes...
First off, you should only use them in new rotors (according to Carlos). Used rotors, ESPECIALLY the 89-92 T2 rotors that are made up a softer material tend to slightly bend at the end of each rotor... allowing the seal to slightly move and then snap into what looks like a 3 piece seal, but is effectively a blown engine.
Secondly, if you use these seals on an 89-92 engine, it is recommended by Dave Atkin's to use the 3mm variety (presumedebly [sp] for the same reason as stated above). I don't want 3mm seals.
Carlos swears by the Atkins' seals, but he too says to use new rotors... that ain't in my budget
I'm going with the stock 2mm seals.
04-08-02, 07:46 PM
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"...a metal seal of special cast iron as base metal, chilled by electron beam..." kenichi yamamoto: rotary engine 1981
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