Greg

Anyone have any feelings about these different seals? How do the hurley seals compare to the stock seals? Jay from the other forum with an s was curious as to the sealing capabilities of these seals vs the stock ones? Can someone let me know your results between the 2. Thanks

Here are the upcoming mods...

KDRotary Rebuild and Street Port
Non-Seq Conversion
APEXi Power FC w/ datalogit
Efini Y-Pipe
APEXi N1 GT Exhaust
RX-7 Fashion 3" SS Downpipe
APEXi Power Intakes
Resonated Mid-pipe
HKS Twin Power Ignition
AWS, EGR, and ACV blocked off

94touring

The stock seals will seal better, due to the 3 piece design. The hurley seals are a little more sturdy being 2 piece and having better springs. I don't imagine the difference in sealing is that noticable anyways. The one advantage the hurley springs are suppose to give is no fluttering in high rpms, less chance of sticking, and better compression at high rpms. When I tore my engine down I notice that the stock seals warped my rotors, and it was obvious that the 3 piece can shift around causing this. I ended up having to get them milled out for 3mm, once I stuck the 2 piece seals in I would have to say that there isn't much chance for any more warping.

peejay

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=2

mainly what Boostn7 has to say about the reliability and wear characteristics of Hurleys...

Grizzly

I have just read all those posts and i feel that they dont realy help, i dont know about u but i am more confused than when i started.

LOL

Stock tips sound Good but Hurley tips are suposed to be used with there Rotor oiler mod? so it is'nt realy fair saying they dont last very long.

Grizzly

Greg are u useing a Apexi Power Fc on your T2? Does it fit?

RX794

In my opinion from what I've seen, there's nothing better than the stock Mazda seal, for the same reasons that Boostn7 has to say, just my 2cents.

Greg

Boostn7 Also Pushes 23-25 lbs of boost from a T70 through the motor.

magnus

We have used Hurley for a long time and feel they very much helped with the longevity of the motor. We ran the same motor for one full season. It was heavily abused that motor; on a small turbo it made 500whp on its best days at 35 psi! Towards the end it was making around 300, too much detonation flattened the springs.

To coment, we have experienced strange wear patterns on the housings that looked like chatter marks, we upped the premix, and are waiting.

We finally broke our first hurley seal, we were making more power than ever and then got a little bit 'brave' shall we say with the nitrous. Instant detonation broke the front Iron, twisted the eccentric shaft and broke 1 apex seal, it also dented the rear rotor wedging the side seal in its slot.

crispeed witnessed us tearing the motor down and trying to rebuild it on saturday morning of qualifying.

I will keep using hurley, because we've had good experiences with them, but we will also be trying some new things.

crispeed

Hey Marko!
It was way too cold for my tropical soul out there that weekend!

crispeed

Node

iTrader: (1)

reread em ;-)
They helped me strengthen my belief in mazda 2mm 3 pieces

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Greg,
You know my situation with the motors. If I didn't have the Hurley racing seals I would have had to buy new rotors and housings. The hurleys usually stay in place if they break which makes the rebuild that much easier. The stockers will shatter and ruin the housings and rotors.

Grizzly

So when it all come down to it the Hurleys are a good all rounder (both high and low speeds) and dont tend to distort the Rotor but they dont last as long as the Stocks and seem to have a nasty habit off wearing the housings out real quick. The Stocks Seal beter but are not quite as good at top end but last longer.

So it is all down to what Bhp u are running, how close u live to Hurley (so u can get there Rotor oiler kit fitted) and how often you want to be doing rebuilds.

I supose tips are like anything else if they are set up right and are looked after you should'nt have a problem with ither.

O and i have a Question for U guys. Which tip set up is best for use with Bridge 2 or 3 Piece and with which springs? I know this is a bit of a daft question, if you do the Bridge right in the first place u could use ither but what i want to know is will one off the two put more stress on the Bridge?

Thanks

Boostn7

Grizzly said exactly what I have been saying for awhile now...

Hurley seem to handle detonation alot better then stock seals, when they do break they usually crack and stay in place or if they do make out of the engine its in small pieces and usually not doing any serious damage. Their material is softer....wearing out faster and leaving a dull rough look on rotor housings vs the stock Mazda seals which are harder at the tip leaving rotor housings shinny and smooth from less wear.

I did find the Hurleys (3mm) breaking at the tip more then once, just like few others have experienced...I found out it had to do with the width of the exhaust port...the wider the port the less seal material you have overlapping the port for support....on the end where it meets the corner piece.
In my case the seal just let go at 7krpm under 22 psi of boost with A/F of 11.8 and EGTs@ ~1500F with no detonation at all !!!! chamber pressure simply pushed the seal out of the exhaust port :-(
there was someone with a pic of a broken hurley seal and that's what it looked like......that's with 3mm, imagine 2mm ones.

Like Magnus which clearly likes the Hurley seals I also upped the premix for the same reasons...and my motor has seen over 500rwh @25psi with the Hurleys and housings/side plates that are over 2years of abuse.

But either way....TUNING IS THE KEY to keeping everything together as long as you have the required hardware for the job !

Later,
John D
10th Ann Ed T-II
-10.80 @ 130mph
-11.1 @ 131mph -BF drag radials
94 white FD

crispeed

Have anyone used the competition apex seals from Powerhouse Engineering? Check out mazdacomp.com for details.

crispeed
87TII
9.20@150mph

Greg

Chris, a guy in jersey hector knows has a new apex seal. I am not too sure of what the seal is made out of but I know that Hector was quite impressed with it. The seal is very firm and will Flex 45 degrees and not snap!!!! They come in 2mm and 3mm. I might send you a set to test. They have ran this seal on a 8.0 second car with full periphial port Turbo and NOS! Ill get more details tomorrow when I go to the shop.

Boostn7

Hi Greg, this guy has them made or this he gets them from someone else...
flex 45 degrees and not snap ?!?!

Forgot to mention something about the Hurleys... supposely they have improved their tip seal material and also have racing side seals made of carbon steel vs cast iron stock ones.

what about unobtainium seals such as Archie uses in his 20B powered FD
from Australia???

John

peejay

It's made out of Flubber!

What's the difference between Hurley "Longlife" and "Racing" seals?

magnus

The racing seals are softer, so they seal better and make a bit more power, don't last as long tho.

peejay

Will the standard Longlife seals still withstand 8500+ RPM?
I want to build an engine that will probably have a 9500-9900rpm shiftpoint, and I have to use 3mm seals. (Mazda 3pc 2mm are not options, not made for 12A)

noodle

i'm fixin to rebuild my motor, and after lookin over the replies i still havent decided on which seals to go with, i want seals that last but i dont want to have to buy new housings and rotors when they go bad, so wut do i do yall?

Roundabout

iTrader: (8)

where might I find this hurley website?

Node

iTrader: (1)

http://www.hurley-engineering.ltd.uk/

machinehead

What are the bennifits of a 3 piece seal over a 2 piece? It seems, and i have heard it said, that the 3 piece would be more fragile. Any truth to this?

HWO

3 piece seals seal better than 1 and 2 piece seals

notice how MAZDA are the only people who make 3 piece seals? cause they the the only place with the milling technolgoy to be able to make3 piece seals

AJC13B

A few points...

1 - Everyone is saying that standard Mazda 2mm seals are the ****. If Mazda use them, why don't we? Well, no Mazda on earth runs a T04 based turbo, 25psi boost and a 50 shot of N20 from the factory as far as I know.

2 - The R26B used 3mm ceramic coated 2 piece seals with double springs. What would I prefer to use? Standard Mazda components or components they used in an engine making more power than mine?

No one here or in the link to the thread has mentioned anything about springs being a big part?? My past 2 engines have used double spring 3mm 2 piece double sprung seals that my engine builder bought from Canada apparently. Both engines let go in spectacular fashion; 1 with a massive lean out and overboost (picture here and here) and the next was from using rocket fuel and not knowing how to tune it (pictures here and here). In both engines, the apex seals DID NOT break in anyway shape or form! In both engines, the seals themselves were damaged from other bits flying around the combustion chambers!

My current engine has the same seals but only single springs as double spring sets were not available at the time. My engine is making around 600fwhp on 22psi and pump fuel and has not missed a beat.

For the record with all my engines I have had over 15 inches of vacuum at idle, but I don't think vacuum at idle means anything, unless you have 2 inches at idle, then theres a problem