Speedworks

Found this on the Australian forum and did a search over here. Didn't find a thing.

Does anybody know anything about these guys?

http://www.southcoastrotary.com.au/scrseals.htm

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Hmm very interesting. Since these are from AUS the conversion is 440.00 US for the 13b engines and $660.00 US for a 20b. I wonder how heavy they are and how much wear do they cause on the housings? Damn they don't have an e-mail so I can ask some questions.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

interesting indeed. what's the catch? sealing ability?

now

iTrader: (1)

the ra seals can be bent and twisted like this to, but are much less money.
do the ra seals work well with the rotor housings, some say yes some say no.
I still think mazda seals are the best choice and the new competition mazda seals even better?
matt

Speedworks

do you happen to have a Part number of those competition Mazda seals?

Thanks in advance

now

iTrader: (1)

I have asked a member of the forum and he doesn't really want to give it out, its a mazda japan item
only item anyhow so they wouldn't be easy to get but its just a matter of time and i will have it.
with or with out the help of said member, and if i do find the number without the help of said member i will
make this kit available to everyone
matt

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Yes I have heard of these, I have heard good thing s about them as well through a few of the guys who use them. They will wear your housings faster was what I was told, but wont break.

-S-

Speedworks

thx for the info.

PN of the Mazda race seals would be welcome even so. You can see I'm in Europe and a friend works at Mazda Europe. he can order from Japan

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

wwww.southcoastrotary.com.au/scrseals.htm

Thats the seals page.


www.southcoastrotary.com.au/contact.htm

youll find a phone number, email to get in contact with them for information, prices etc.

13BT_RX3

If they are ductile, they probably have a lower yield strength than stock seals. This means that they would permanently deform at a lower stress level. So they would bend at a level that would not effect a stock seal. But they shouldn't crack at higher stress levels. I wonder if they ever get bent in an engine. And if so, what happens? I suppose that would be tough to do since the apex seals are pretty well supported.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Do not take any offense from my post.
But your post is crap.
You will break 10 sets of mazda apex seals before you deform a set of SCR seals.
Ive bent a set of seals and i know what it takes to do it.
When they do bend.They flare out on the ends.
When the engine is pulled apart, it is
as simple as replacing them with new seals and your ready to go.


Youll never ever have a damaged turbo again from broken apex seals, your housings will always be reusable, rotors , face plates, everything will be in top nick.

Their are 13bs in peurto rico that have run 179mph and low 7 second passes with SCR seals. And they dont simply bend after every pass, one team has been using a set of scr seals for the whole season with great success.

I will update the website soon, to show how many car 7,8,9 second cars are using scr seals with success.

It has also made people more daring to wind in more boost and more timing due to the fact that the repair bill has now been reduced to a measely $400 US compared to $2500 US.

If you have any more enquiries about them, check the website out, send us an email, www.southcoastrotary.com.au/contact.htm.


If you want to price a set of seals up, pm me. I can help out.

13BT_RX3

No offense take. Just trying to understand the benefits of this design. Thanks for sharing your experience.

So when you bend a seal what are the signs? Does it loose two chambers like a blown apex seal?

rotary800

rx72c,

check your email. thanks.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

When you bend a seal, it will show same signs as breakage.
Two chambers with little or no compression.
My email address is hd269@optusnet.com.au.
The email address on the website is the owner of the company and he can also answer any questions you may have, whether it is technical or to do with pricing.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Hmmm, so this are the "black" apex seals that everybody is ranting!

Yup, I've heard that they don't break, just bend under detonation; I would love to see long term results

rx7vadim

they buy ra seals just to resell for $400 lol

rx7vadim

sounds like good seal but we need proof and test reports like 30k test for wear on seal and housing

RICE RACING

If you must use metal seals use Mazda OEM.

Aftermarket use one of the known ceramic seal suppliers.

Other stuff ......... well its up to you, its a free world

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

These are definitely not black.

And they only bend under extreme detonation or long lean out.

I have a set in my engine that have done over 60 000ks, engine still has over 100psi compression in each rotor.

One of the workers at SCR has had a set in his 12a for over 95 000ks.
Engine still has similar comp figures to when it was first built.
Still starts first click.
So they can go the whole yard no dramas.


SCR side seals will be released in one week.
The seals page will be updated.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

I dont recall seeing NRS anywere?
Have you ever cared to tell anybody what happens when your ceramics break? How your turbo gets destroyed, how your housings are now rubbish, and the rotors have no hope of surviving? Mazda OEM suffer the same problems? Im sure you will tell me that if the tune is perfect etc etc that you will have no problem, but this is hardly the case, racing is all about trial and error, and using NRS or Mazda OEM seals is far too expensive to do trial and error, especially when a set of ceramic seals cost $2000 a set.
Ive heard many good reports about NRS seals so dont get me wrong, they are much stronger then mazda apex seals, but they still do not address the issue of having a huge damage bill after something going wrong.
Anyways i dont want to wreck this thread with an argument with you cause ive had any with you on the aussie forum.
Lets keep this thread on track.

Many top runners in peurto rico, either using turbo or nitrous, are using scr seals.
Many top runners in australia also using scr seals.
I know the purple wagon from Maztech is also considering using scr seals after some dramas with pts seals.

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

Then why are you commenting on them?

Wrong.

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=108

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=nrs


Wrong.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=592853


See above and...

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=104


And many top tuners in those places are using NRS seals... including Abel Iberra.

RICE RACING

You may deal in trial and error?

We dont

Good luck with your product AND be very carefull what BS you post I will shut you down very fast and very hard

I will leave you to your thread

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Peter.
0416641851. Call me. you can shut me down over the phone.

And yes.
In australia they are $2000 a set. I know a person who payed $2000 AUD for a set of 12a seals. And pete should know about that one.....

The link you showed me, looks like a picture of a broken ceramic seal? Which means that it could have cause damage to the rotor housing and turbo.
Obviously in this case it did not happen, consider himself lucky.
The fact of the matter.
NRS Seals will break. And cause they break, there is a chance they will take out alot of things with them.

Im not sure what your trying to prove by showing me a picture of a broken ceramic seal? Do you want me to show you a picture of a broken mazda apex seal? Ive seen a few engines that break mazda apex seals, and they dont come out of their slot.

Anyway. Im going to stop myself from destroying a good thread and im not going to comment on NRS seals. Let rice make another thread and fill your hearts.


this is for SCR seals, will keep it about scr seals.
Their are 3 20b race cars that have run low 7 second passes using SCR seals down here in aus.
4 13b turbos in peurto rico using SCR seals all running 170mph+ and 7 second passes.
2 13b turbos in australia using SCR seals running 165mph+ and 7 second passes.

You dont do trial and error?
So you have never tried setting up a rotary in any form other then standard?
If you have, then you have gone through the process of trial and error.
If you think otherwise, you have no idea.
Before you give me more of your "great knowledge", remeber the 1000hp pump fuel car you were gona make? make it and come back. Remember that 118mph you supposedly ran in your sp? Show us the time slip you got from your local canberra 1/4 mile track which dosnt exist.


One more thing peter.
Dont wreck a good thread.
If you have some sort of drama, leave it to pms.

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

They don't cost that here so your point is moot.


They break clean and they don't shatter thus they don't damage the engine, the turbos etc. which has been our experience. A ceramic may not break on a couple hard detonations where as steel seals will warp...great the engine has to come out and come apart.


Actually why don't you show me some pictures of NRS seals which have come out of their slot and damaged housings, turbos etc.

Little late for that woulnd't you say?


And there are also plenty of cars using NRS seals, including Abel Iberra who is the fastest. Secondly, racing is fine but it differs from street driving where longevity and practicality comes to mind. You make the assumption that SCR seals will just warp and NRS break. What point does the SCR warp vs the breaking factor of the NRS's? If you can break an NRS you have busted something else by then, here is a perfect example, again...

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=104

The NRS seals don't fail exept under extreme conditions and then you'll have other issues so the engine is coming apart regardless. Ceramics also contribute to little or no housing wear and seal better than steel seals due to less chatter at high rpms. Mazdaspeed made more power with ceramics than the steel seals by simply changing, over 30 hp on a stock FD block.
Mazda used ceramics on their 787B R26B 4 rotor which won Lemans instead of steel seals...Why is that?



Here are the specs for the NRS seals...

Gray Material Black Material
Aspirated- all applications Aspirated- all applications
Turbo- 20+ Lbs boost Turbo- up to 20 Lbs boost
Max Temp Use- 1400 ēC Max Temp Use- 1150 ēC
Thermal Shock Parameter-1100 ēC Thermal Shock Parameter-600 ēC
Fracture Toughness-25% higher than black material Growth- slightly less than gray material

The 13B seals have an overall length of 3.1445" +0.0005" -0.000". So there will be a clearance of 0.0055" (0.1mm) -0.0005" (0.0125mm) + 0.000"/mm with respect to a dimensionally perfect housing (3.150”). Generally even new Rotor Housings are 0.0005” to 0.0015” under the perfect dimension, therefore a housing that is 0.0015” under will still have 0.004” overall clearance (ample for high boost applications).

The 12A seals have an overall length of 2.7520” +0.0005” –0.000”. Additional clearance is required for 12A turbocharged engines. It is possible to customize seal lengths based on accurate measurements of the rotor housings, minimum thickness area. This will be somewhat more expensive due to additional set-up on a small quantity, however it is highly recommended when using large amounts of boost due to the increased heat.

Each seal is meticulously inspected and detailed before it ever reaches the market.
Here is an outline of the process:

Machined as non-aggressively as possible ensuring minimal damage to the ceramic seal surface.
Machined with longitudinal striations (machining lines) where possible, maintaining maximum fracture toughness in all directions.
Tested for fractural imperfections using a level 4 Fluorescent dye-penetrant (used in nuclear testing applications, see attached photos). Procedure in accordance with ASTM 165 liquid penetrant inspection method. AITEC quality assurance manual ISO 9002: 1994. Personnel qualified by independent examination to: Can/CGSB II 48.9712 2000, ISO 9712, which is equivalent to the American standard: ACCP, ASNT (American Society for Non-Destructive Testing) Central Certification Program. Microscope inspection follows if necessary.
Upon completion of inspection are exposed to an oxidizing atmosphere, which oxidizes the surface resulting in increased strength by reducing stress incurred in machining. This process reduces sharp edges slightly and gives a super smooth surface with a cloudy or milky appearance rather than a glass like appearance.
Specifications

Length- (13B) 3.1445” +0.0005” –0.000”
(12A) 2.7520” +0.0005” –0.000”
Height- 0.0360” +0.000” -0.002” to outer spring step
Thickness- (3mm) 0.1155” +0.0005” -0.000”
(2mm) 0.0755” +0.0005” -0.000”
Weight- approx 5.5 grams per piece (3mm 13B)
Outer spring length- stock 3mm 13B
Inner spring length- stock 13B cut to fit
2mm springs are 3mm springs modified to 2mm width


I'm sure you can show us the specs such as thermal shock loads etc and testing done on the SCR's ? Please post them.



You attack other people and other products then you state "don't wreck the thread or keep it on track" ?
Don't you see something wrong with that picture?


Lastly, steel seals may be great but they inherently have weaknesses compared to ceramics based soley on material. Ceramic is lighter, has better wear properties, especially on the housings and seal better.

I'm not knocking the SCR's as they may be fine but and we will see.

RICE RACING

Good luck with your product, with marketing like yours you will need it

My reputation extends far beyond what your little mind or stupid derogitary typings can muster *dont forget that *

Simple warning for you:

Shut your mouth in realtion to my product & ME, our companies engineering or our many end users.....
Trial and Error?
We dont have that as a manufacturer/supplier of a true high end technology rotary product.
Some of our end users (big names) have had it, I provide along with Sven many levels of technical support from basic build tollerances to tuning parameters through our support network which enables our customers to break records (not bend seals), it spans the globe and its in your local area too Its at the highest levels of your chosen sport and I dont even compete in it LOL, but I know alot about it, enough to give information to people which they pass on and so set records with it ! The fact stands that once peoples skill level gets up to speed there is no more trial and error (as you call it) only clear direction, and following sucsess, so much so that they ONLY use our product from that point on.

***State whatever the hell you like about your own stuff, its a free world & I'm not going to stop you on that front. If you want to discuss this further feel free to come up to the Mazsport camp and talk with me on Saturday