R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone have some information about aftermarket apex seal wear when no premix or an OMP is used?

Does anyone know if any of the aftermarket apex seals available have ever been able to withstand the abuse of running without the use of premix or an OMP?

We are currently developing a product that may make running without premix or an OMP a reality!!!

Looking for some input.

Latin270

Interesting.

slo

iTrader: (1)

why?

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Why not?

With no OMP or premix we could get the full potential out of higher octane fuels and keep carbon from building up inside the engine. Plus a more realiable motor without the hassles of premixing.

There are alot of benifits to the rotary engine that this could provide.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I guess what I'm getting at is premix really isn't a hassle it takes less than 30 second at every fill up, premix doesn't build up carbon and it significantly extends the life of the seals and housings (ok I can't prove this but Ive taken apart some motors that where premixed and many that weren't.)

Doesn't premix also lubricate the side seals, as the oil control rings keep oil from getting to the side seals en mass.

Also I can't imagine that the 1% of premix in the gas has a significant effect on the potential of the fuel.

Havoc

you really think the stock setup is a hassle ?

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Have you premixed a daily driven Rotary before....I certainly have....pain in my ***. Wont ever do it again.

Granted 1% premix may not change the octane rating of the fuel significantly, but it does lower it...adding oil to fuel will lower the octane rating.


Getting back on topic, I was simply asking if any aftermarket seals are able to run without any source of oil lubrication, wether it be by premix or OMP.
I guess not otherwise someone would have said something by now.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Its not so much of a hassle, more of a realiablitly issue. I have had OMP's fail and prematurely wear out apex seals and housings.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I have and I do, its not a hassle at all, as I said 30 seconds at most.

No after market seals are designed to run with no lubrication.

How can something designed to pretty much not burn like premix lower the octane rating of fuel. I can believe it might lower the specific energy of the fuel but I have a hard time believing it would decrease the threshold for autoignition and make the fuel more volatile which is whats whats implied by lowering of octane.

Again at a 1% rate thats not significant.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

30 sec could be spent doing much better things lol... To me and others I've talked to its a hassle, but others like yourself seem to not mind. I guess it depends how much you drive the car. Mine I was filling up everyday....thats a pain in the ***.

I'm not a tuner or a chemist, but 2 stroke oil, that you premix with, is designed to burn. Thats why you premix with it, otherwise it would build up in the motor, possibly creating carbon deposits and clog catalytic converters.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I should have said, not designed as a fuel, what I mean is not volatile.

crispeed

You do know that premix is not only for the apex seal and rotor housings. Side seals and side housings depend on premix especially in the higher horsepower applications to live a longer life.
Most of the aftermarket steal/metal apex seals especially the softer ones in design require a richer mixture and higher premix ratio to sustain a longer life. The only apex seal that should live a longer life with less premix would be ceramic.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Nice thats what I want to hear...thanks

thirdgenrx7r1

iTrader: (3)

How about the side seals?????

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

What about them?

aussiesmg

iTrader: (1)

Any metal on metal contact needs lubrication, otherwise the surface will create friction and wear. Premix or OMP adds the lubricant needed, how do you propose to remove this need, you can't be adding to the fuel or it also dilutes the fuel, coating the parts seems unlikely due to the movement and heat.

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

You have a good idea, however I don't think it will ever work. Like mentioned above the apex seals, side seals, corner seals all need lubrication or they will wear much faster and cause housing/surface damage/wear. I run premix in my car and it really is not a big deal and it does not cause excess carbon build up. By premixing you also can run synthetic in the engine and not have to worry about using any oil every 2000 miles. I personally don't want to trust an omp to go out and cause my motor to blow so I premix. This is an example of what sets the rotary guys from the piston guys. Some people are just too lazy to do simple maintenance on their cars, and hence this is why rotories have a bad reputation because of the lazy ignorant people.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

I hear ya, I realize that Rotaries are high maintenance, which gives them the bad rep because of the slackers that own them.
And I also know that all of the internal components require some kind of lubrication, its pretty common to see apex seals wear out quicker due to the lack of lubrication.

ronbros3

Alright! whats the point here, enlightin us?

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I'm putting my money on coatings

snax

i have a complete stock s4 the person i bought it from claims he "rebuilt" the engine would premixing be safe for me to use and if it is how much should i add??

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

Nope sorry, not coatings. I'll explain when testing is complete. Thanks

patman

iTrader: (3)

no, there are no current seals that do not require lubrication.

You know, I have done lots of research into rotary engines, and over the years there have been many companies that claimed they had solved all the problems, refused to give details, and then taken a bunch of people for a lot of money. I would recommend that if you actually do have a viable alternative to external lubrication that you share it. This helps to establish credibility, it helps you to benchmark development, and it helps to get your name out there. And there is always the possibility that someone will suggest an improvement to your idea. If you are worried about intellectual property, file a patent application. Otherwise out with it.

Personally I am skeptical of your idea, as I see no way it could work, but ive been wrong before.

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

LOL, i see your point...

I'm not going to go right into details, but basically I've come across an alloy that self lubricates when it is rubbed together with itself and has very little friction and virtually no wear. As heat is applied to it, it also gets harder without sacrificing its wear and friction properties.

Kyrasis6

Piston engines have been using Molybdenum in various parts for decades for many of these reasons, and some of the race engines I've worked on used it because running insanely tight tollerances wouldn't allow enough of an oil film to run the engine reliably. The Moly compensated for the severe reduction in lubrication.