Scalliwag

This particular coating has a 55 rockwell C hardness. The process I am using to get beyond the rough surface I will not disclose. The final finishing is being done by lapping with a diamond compound though.

I still don't know the hardness of a stock housing but this stuff is harder to cut. Once I ground past the rough surface thoughit really looks good. The coating is bonded really tight too. At first I was afraid it might flake off when my tooling hit it. I will take some pictures after work at what the area I "freehanded" did. When I put it in automode it is going to take it deeper so that will be the next process.

Judge Ito

I get upset every single time I have to send some used rotor housings to the scrap yard. I hope you could find a way to bring this rotor housings back to life.. I have about 10 sets of rotor housings on the floor that need to be scrapped but Im not ready to scrap them yet...

Scalliwag

I just have to get the people at the plasma spray shop to work with me on pricing. I need to find a real good source for diamond compound and/or Boron Carbide for finishing as well.
I want to get the price down enough to where not only the hardcore racers will be doing it. We will see.

80-CU.IN.T

Thanks for the info. - GOOD LUCK -

Scalliwag

Okay guys, here we go. I decided I will run this off manually a couple of areas at a time so I can test the finishing process. Tell me what you think so far.
http://webpages.charter.net/mikerobe...st%20grind.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/mikerobe...indcloseup.jpg

Gearhead

iTrader: (1)

This rocks!!! Keep up the good work.

Scalliwag

The center is thicker than the outer edges. Just in case you wonder why there is still areas at the edges that are still a little "dirty". The shop said they can change their setup once I commit to running a steady supply that will make it more even edge to edge. The good part is that there is still enough to come off that the edges would be clean by the time I take it down as far as it HAS to go. The only problem with the thicker center is that is takes more work to get it off. I was glad to hear they can fix that.

I am pretty jazzed about this. We will know something quick. Some of the local guys around my area are ready to play guinea pig to get some testing as soon as they are ready.

Scalliwag

I just noticed it was a month to the day that I started the thread. Hopefully there will be even better news within the next month. Pictures of a motor build and maybe taken apart by then.
I am checking on getting the side housings resurfaced tomorrow. I will give an update on that as well.

Scalliwag

Oh, this is the material they used "Armacor" and the link to the specs http://coatings.liquidmetal.com/inde...ion=technology
Whatcha think?

Rx7carl

Wow, I've read thru this thread and I am truly impressed. I know every rotorhead whos ever rebuilt a motor or 2 or 10 has wondered at one time or another "Why cant someone resurface these things!". Scalliwag, if you pull this off you'll be dining with the jet set crowd! Best of luck to you!

Rx7carl

Sounds perfect!

Scalliwag

I did not get to touch it this evening. After work tomorrow I am going to get after it real hard. I have several abrasive compounds to try. By Saturday evening I will have some pics of hopefully a housing that back to stock specs to show off. It is sad that it is a junk housing even when it is done but since it is going to be the first one it will make a better conversation piece anyway. The more I see that surface come to life does get me jazzed pretty tight though and I would really like to be putting it together.
Patience has never been a trait of mine. It would probably be a real good time to start gathering up some housings guys. In the case of peripheral ported housings that may have some severe gouging in most cases I will be able to fix them too. I can "dremel" the gouges so I can tig weld some filler metal in before I mill them and have them coated. It would cost more obviously but in a case where a lot of time was put into the housings (polishing, porting, etc.) in some cases it may be worth it.
So if you know anyone with some "scrap" peripheral port housings that you can get cheap, you might want to start thinking about that.

I would still love to know where these people are supposed to be that are already doing this. It is the best kept secret I have seen.

Scalliwag

Haha! I don't think the "jetset" crowd is quite ready for me. I tend to rattle on about too many ideas for alot of people. But I can assure you that it is just a matter of "when" I get this working and not "if". Even if the first runs give any problem their are different coatings to try including ceramic. The ceramic would cost me $75.00 more per housing and the spray shop thinks that the armacor is better suited. On paper it sounds good. The metal is looking good for what I have seen so far. If the low friction, high bond strength, and resistance to thermal cycling are anywhere close to what they claim we are in really good shape.
I can assure everyone here that they have not wasted their time reading the content of this thread. They will get to see this evolve and have pictures, tests, and be able to talk to some of the people involved. Steve Kan and Ari Yallon (Rotary Performance- Garland Texas) are going to be seeing this all first hand. Everyone that knows them know that they know their $hit when it comes to rotaries. So there will not be a need to rely on just my word of the results.

Scalliwag

Here are some more pictures. There are two grinding processes to get it to this point. This point is not real far off as far as finish goes but if I was actually going to be able to use this I would have to take more off still. It is not far off, but a rotor will not quite fit into it still.
I am not too worried about that at this point. As long as I know I have more than enough to grind down all is good... well GREAT!
http://webpages.charter.net/mikerobe...dgrind02sm.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/mikerobe...dgrind01sm.jpg

Scalliwag

This polished out really well and I am happy with the results. I am milling a good set tomorrow to take to the spray shop. My camera does not take macro shots very well at all. But when the housing is in front of you and you look close there are tiny needle point holes in the surface. This was not something I expected, but it is a great surprise so far.
Some of the reading I have done eluded to that being a good thing because oil gets in them and helps lubricate.
That is not to say that when I put the motor together and fire it up that everything is not going to be screwed up! (arghhh!!!! the thought!) But such is life when you do these type of things.
I can say that I would not pay to get another set coated if I did not feel REAL confident about it.
Cross your fingers guys.
Oh, and would you post something now and then? I have 3 people PM'ing me which I like, but a lot of the info in the PM's is good reading for everyone.
I definately read every post on this thread because it is in my best interest.

Scalliwag

let's recap!

Scalliwag

Sorry to be the only one posting lately, but a lot has happened the last couple of days.
I found the PM that was sent to me that included an excerpt about the tiny perferations being helpful. Here is the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rx-7/message/4486
The following is the specific details this guy had took from the book he reffered to:
"Here is another interesting factoid; the steel cast-in insert on the
housings is called SIP (Sheet-metal Insert Process) and after it is in,
the metal is plated with a porous chrome plating process called
MCP-Micro Channel Plating (which seems to me very similar to chrome
channel plating used in aircraft cylinders sometimes) for lubrication
purposes. "
If I had not read that I would have freaked when I saw the little "holes". We are talking really tiny holes. You have to look real close even when it is in front of you.

Scalliwag

I did a search on the net for "Micro Channel Plating " and look what I found-
http://members.rogers.com/sofronov/C...otary/12A.html

It talks about the insert and porous plating.

Manolis_D

iTrader: (2)

more more more! This is cool ... keep it coming!

Thanks!,
Manolis

fcfdfan

Really interesting, Scalliwag! Damn, dude! Right on!

Nat
Thousand Oaks, CA

Scalliwag

I was going through PM's and picking up a few people questioning whether this would work or not. I decided to contact the people that make the actual product that is being sprayed to quiz them. The guy told me that he is not familiar with the way a rotary engine works but he asked me if I was familiar with a bunch of equipment like coal crushers, cokers, and slurries.
I've never heard of a coker or a slurrie. He got to the bottom line that some of the equipment that this process is used on crushes aggregates (like gravel) and is used in extreme heat cycling conditions.

He felt that while he was not familiar with a rotary engine he was certain that the conditions were much less severe than conditions in other equipment. He reffered me to their products page http://coatings.liquidmetal.com/inde...ction=products
Look at the product on the top of the list- LMC-M, that is the one the spray shop is using.
I had read that before but had not put much thought into it because I was not familiar with the applications.
So I did a web search on these things and found that there are slurrie pumps for asphalt and other nasty ****. Cokers sound like they are for crushing rocks, etc. The "coal crushers" were self explanatory so even I did not have to do a web search on them.
It was a very good conversation I had and even though the guy did not know squat about rotaries it was very assuring about what he was familiar with.
We will know something soon guys. I made a few adjustments on my machine and have not milled another set yet. I am getting the camera ready to take pics of the untouched housings and then throwing them on the grinder. I took a sick day from work because I am actually sick. But I will manage the strength to knock these off before the day is out and get them to the spray shop.

WackyRotary

Post a new thread when you have these in a working engine!! I think everyone will be quite impressed if it is a cheaper workable alternative to buying new rotor housings. No way to know how good they are till a few thousand miles and tare apart to see how they look.
Great work on this type of project.

Scalliwag

Yep, once I start the engine build I will start a new thread. The first engine will be ran on a stand setup and then pulled apart. The first inspection will say a whole lot.
I will probably put it in my vert after I get it back together if all looks good.
What I really want is a T-Bucket roadster rolling chassis. Right now with everything going on I don't have time to build one up from scratch. If I can find a rolling chassis or complete car (I'd yank whatever engine and tranny was in it out) I will put it in that.

It would be so easy to pull the motor in and out and just be so fugg'n cool to look at So if anyone knows where a really good deal on a fiberglass roaster project out there let me know.
I have to get the pictures off my camera of the housings I worked on today. It will be Thursday before I can get them to the shop because some "honey freak'n do's" interfered with my day. I bought some high temp RTV sealant and put in in the exhaust port, spark plug holes, and oil injector holes for "masking" to keep the plating out of these. I also have to mask the sides as well and I have not yet decided what to do there yet. You don't want something that will melt into the coating.
Any ideas?

Scalliwag

I found out that the same process (armacor) is used in industrial diesel generators and there is a company in Chicago that makes racing snowmobiles that put out 350hp that use armacor on steel cylinder sleeves and that both have great results. This news sounded promising.

80-CU.IN.T

I haven't read this thread for a while. IT took me about 20 min. just to catch up. Looks great so far. Keep us posted.