Propane Injection – Ken’s Findings
05-04-02, 11:56 AM
#52
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Originally posted by LUV94RX7
Since when is water injection breaking the law?
Ken
Since when is water injection breaking the law?
Ken
According to your buddy Welsh, in another thread, that has now been deleted (IIRC) -- He said, it was ILLEGAL to modify your vehicle to inject ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE into the intake tract. The "ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE" can be read as water, jelly, propane, alky, or you name it.
Please respond to my larger post, there are alot of points there i'd wish you would address, rather then ignoring it.
05-04-02, 12:03 PM
#53
Originally posted by ekool
Ken, do you even read my posts? Do you ever read anything other then what Welsh force feeds you?
According to your buddy Welsh, in another thread, that has now been deleted (IIRC) -- He said, it was ILLEGAL to modify your vehicle to inject ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE into the intake tract. The "ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE" can be read as water, jelly, propane, alky, or you name it.Please respond to my larger post, there are alot of points there i'd wish you would address, rather then ignoring it.
Ken, do you even read my posts? Do you ever read anything other then what Welsh force feeds you?
According to your buddy Welsh, in another thread, that has now been deleted (IIRC) -- He said, it was ILLEGAL to modify your vehicle to inject ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE into the intake tract. The "ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE" can be read as water, jelly, propane, alky, or you name it.Please respond to my larger post, there are alot of points there i'd wish you would address, rather then ignoring it.
Ken, 58 years young
'94 white, base, pep, red leather,
mods: street port & polished stage II, 3mm Hurley racing seals, upgraded coolant seals,
AEM ECU(If they can ever deliver),
XS T04e single turbo kit,
SMIC (400+cu.in.),
Aquamist 2s water injection kit,
Pettit ss resonated MP,
Pettit ss cat-back,
RP Racing fuel pump,
1600cc injectors,
Profec B(15&20+psi),
3-bar Map Sensor,
Centerforce clutch,
under pulley kit(no air pump),
Pettit short shifter kit,
boost gauge,
LaBreck's bushings,
Evans Coolant
<http://nopistons.com/luv94rx7.html>
05-04-02, 12:08 PM
#54
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Originally posted by LUV94RX7
I think I made myself clear, I'm done with this project.
Ken, 58 years young
I think I made myself clear, I'm done with this project.
Ken, 58 years young
If you dont wish to address any of the points that I've brought up, for whatever reason, that is your choice.
Can you please forward my large post to the big list, so that other people are not mislead by your one sided, clearly biased posts?
If anyone else is on the big list, can you please forward my post there so that people are not mislead? You can include my email address, I'd like people to have REAL FACTS, and REAL INFORMATION, not some sales pitch full of lies and libelous statements.
Unlike Ken, I can comment because I actually USE the stuff.
05-04-02, 12:13 PM
#55
Originally posted by ekool Unlike Ken, I can comment because I actually USE the stuff. [/B]
That's all I want to see.
If it's a significant improvement I'll buy it.
That's all I wanted from the start.
Ken
05-04-02, 12:18 PM
#56
Originally posted by ekool Can you please forward my large post to the big list, so that other people are not mislead by your one sided, clearly biased posts? [/B]
As I told you I'm done with this project. It's been a waste of my time.
I put a lot of time on this because I'm unemployed.
Ken
05-04-02, 12:20 PM
#57
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Originally posted by LUV94RX7
Great, if you use this stuff(propane) post me your dyno numbers with and without propane.
That's all I want to see.
If it's a significant improvement I'll buy it.
That's all I wanted from the start.
Ken
Great, if you use this stuff(propane) post me your dyno numbers with and without propane.
That's all I want to see.
If it's a significant improvement I'll buy it.
That's all I wanted from the start.
Ken
Actual track figures.
Dyno numbers can be skewed to represent whatever someone feels like.... do a pull without propane when the car is extremely hot, with no fan blowing on the FMIC -- then let the car cool down for hours, put some ice on it, turn on the fan, adjust the dyno altitude and temperature correction factory, and voila, you've now made an extra 100 HP.
If you would have only listened to anything I've said, you would already have these figures. You would also have links to threads where most of what you have discussed has been hashed and rehashed over and over, Instead, you went to Welsh and blindly believed everything he said.
My car before the propane ran a best of 11.6@126 -- After the propane, it ran a very rich 11.09@131.5 -- Quite an improvement I'd say... On the street, I also run about 3.5 more pounds of boost on the propane then on straight pump gas (91 octane here).
I do plan to dyno the car tomorrow actually (which will be the first time i've ever dynoed any of my cars) -- I put as much stock in dyno numbers as I do in manufacturer horsepower claims, not that much... I dont just blindly believe the marketing information someone tells me when they have something to gain by deceiving me (my money) which is exactly what Welsh is doing to you.
Coming from a supra background where some supposed 900+ RWHP supras run mid 12's.. you learn to not trust dyno numbers so much... I'm sure some of the RX7 guys can definetly understand where i'm coming from.
05-04-02, 01:47 PM
#58
Originally posted by ekool Ken, I dont need to post dyno numbers, I have something better.
Actual track figures.Dyno numbers can be skewed to represent whatever someone feels like.... do a pull without propane when the car is extremely hot, with no fan blowing on the FMIC -- then let the car cool down for hours, put some ice on it, turn on the fan, adjust the dyno altitude and temperature correction factory, and voila, you've now mde an extra 100 HP.If you would have only listened to anything I've said, you would already have these figures. You would also have links to threads where most of what you have discussed has been hashed and rehashed over and over, Instead, you went to Welsh and blindly believed everything he said.
My car before the propane ran a best of 11.6@126 -- After the propane, it ran a very rich 11.09@131.5 -- Quite an improvement I'd say... On the street, I also run about 3.5 more pounds of boost on the propane then on straight pump gas (91 octane here).I do plan to dyno the car tomorrow actually (which will be the first time i've ever dynoed any of my cars) -- I put as much stock in dyno numbers as I do in manufacturer horsepower claims, not that much... I dont just blindly believe the marketing information someone tells me when they have something to gain by deceiving me (my money) which is exactly what Welsh is doing to you.
Coming from a supra background where some supposed 900+ RWHP supras run mid 12's.. you learn to not trust dyno numbers so much... I'm sure some of the RX7 guys can definetly understand where i'm coming from.
Actual track figures.Dyno numbers can be skewed to represent whatever someone feels like.... do a pull without propane when the car is extremely hot, with no fan blowing on the FMIC -- then let the car cool down for hours, put some ice on it, turn on the fan, adjust the dyno altitude and temperature correction factory, and voila, you've now mde an extra 100 HP.If you would have only listened to anything I've said, you would already have these figures. You would also have links to threads where most of what you have discussed has been hashed and rehashed over and over, Instead, you went to Welsh and blindly believed everything he said.
My car before the propane ran a best of 11.6@126 -- After the propane, it ran a very rich 11.09@131.5 -- Quite an improvement I'd say... On the street, I also run about 3.5 more pounds of boost on the propane then on straight pump gas (91 octane here).I do plan to dyno the car tomorrow actually (which will be the first time i've ever dynoed any of my cars) -- I put as much stock in dyno numbers as I do in manufacturer horsepower claims, not that much... I dont just blindly believe the marketing information someone tells me when they have something to gain by deceiving me (my money) which is exactly what Welsh is doing to you.
Coming from a supra background where some supposed 900+ RWHP supras run mid 12's.. you learn to not trust dyno numbers so much... I'm sure some of the RX7 guys can definetly understand where i'm coming from.
If your numbers are correct it shows about a 13% gain in power with propane. 126 to 131 mph is about 60 bhp gain. That is great.
Ken
05-04-02, 02:05 PM
#59
I don't know why I am being ripped for trying to find an option that might make our RX-7s perform better. All I ever wanted is some real world proof of the claims. If they are really there then I will try it, if they are not, then I will not waste my money. If you have real world proof I'll buy it.
ekool if the numbers are there, then you tell me what I should buy.
ekool - that was a very good post. I hope your dyno numbers will prove my 60 bhp improvement were true.
My simmulation showed a 480 to 540 bhp run netted 60 bhp. 131mph 1/4 mile is really great. Anytime you get 5 mph improvement at that end it's about 60bhp gain. I'm impressed. I look forwared to your dyno numbers.
Ken
ekool if the numbers are there, then you tell me what I should buy.
ekool - that was a very good post. I hope your dyno numbers will prove my 60 bhp improvement were true.
My simmulation showed a 480 to 540 bhp run netted 60 bhp. 131mph 1/4 mile is really great. Anytime you get 5 mph improvement at that end it's about 60bhp gain. I'm impressed. I look forwared to your dyno numbers.
Ken
05-04-02, 02:41 PM
#60
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Ken, you continually miss my point.
What I have posted is nothing new. You simply chose to ignore it before.
No one is ripping on you for trying to find alternatives, or for making big power.
My main problem is how you continually say everything Welsh says, and believe everything he says as fact.
You even started to believe what he said about the DR kit being illegal, and against government regulations when there is absolutely no fact behind that claim.
Why did you say that, if you dont agree with it, or you do not have any proof?
That is why you are getting ripped on, not for any other reason.
I wont recommend either kit to you Ken. I have a feeling that after all the hype, there isnt anything on the planet that would live up to your expectations.
Ken, I really want you to understand where i'm coming from. Again, just please please pretty please, read all your past posts. Read them and try to put yourself in an independent mind set. Every post you have made keeps harping on the claims of Welsh, and you make them sound as if they are fact. Welsh this, Welsh that, DR's kit is illegal, etc, etc.
The DR kit is very simple, the idea behind it is very simple... the idea has been around for a very long time, and DR certainly isnt the first, or the only one to do such a thing.
1. Propane is injected into the intake tract. You determine how much by regulating bottle pressure, and jet size (remember, these are the same jets that people use to PRECISELY measure nitrous and fuel injected into a motor)
2. The Propane is set to come on at an adjustable boost point. My particular setup comes on right at 14psi.
3. The propane acts as an octane booster, and intake charge cooler, as well as auxiliary fuel. Nothing more, Nothing less.
The injection only happens during WOT, not all the time. You will make more horsepower, and yes, you might even get a slight increase in gas mileage, but at WOT, its a waste of time regardless since you are probably only getting 4 MPG to begin with.
What I have posted is nothing new. You simply chose to ignore it before.
No one is ripping on you for trying to find alternatives, or for making big power.
My main problem is how you continually say everything Welsh says, and believe everything he says as fact.
You even started to believe what he said about the DR kit being illegal, and against government regulations when there is absolutely no fact behind that claim.
Why did you say that, if you dont agree with it, or you do not have any proof?
That is why you are getting ripped on, not for any other reason.
I wont recommend either kit to you Ken. I have a feeling that after all the hype, there isnt anything on the planet that would live up to your expectations.
Ken, I really want you to understand where i'm coming from. Again, just please please pretty please, read all your past posts. Read them and try to put yourself in an independent mind set. Every post you have made keeps harping on the claims of Welsh, and you make them sound as if they are fact. Welsh this, Welsh that, DR's kit is illegal, etc, etc.
The DR kit is very simple, the idea behind it is very simple... the idea has been around for a very long time, and DR certainly isnt the first, or the only one to do such a thing.
1. Propane is injected into the intake tract. You determine how much by regulating bottle pressure, and jet size (remember, these are the same jets that people use to PRECISELY measure nitrous and fuel injected into a motor)
2. The Propane is set to come on at an adjustable boost point. My particular setup comes on right at 14psi.
3. The propane acts as an octane booster, and intake charge cooler, as well as auxiliary fuel. Nothing more, Nothing less.
The injection only happens during WOT, not all the time. You will make more horsepower, and yes, you might even get a slight increase in gas mileage, but at WOT, its a waste of time regardless since you are probably only getting 4 MPG to begin with.
05-04-02, 05:43 PM
#61
Laying Down Rotary Law
eco ****
eco ****
eco ****
Ken
you dont give a **** about performance
so stop bull shitting
your goals are to have lower emissions,better MPG
and increased reliablity
you stated it your self!
Nothing of which was the original post
YOU have taken it upon your self to make it a "wonder system"
not a "race" system for which was the original intent..
Oh and by the reponses already no one gives a ****
except ECO ***** like ur self
if you want reliablity and great MPG buy a Honda
eco ****
eco ****
Ken
you dont give a **** about performance
so stop bull shitting
your goals are to have lower emissions,better MPG
and increased reliablity
you stated it your self!
Nothing of which was the original post
YOU have taken it upon your self to make it a "wonder system"
not a "race" system for which was the original intent..
Oh and by the reponses already no one gives a ****
except ECO ***** like ur self
if you want reliablity and great MPG buy a Honda
Last edited by kabooski; 05-04-02 at 06:06 PM.
05-04-02, 07:10 PM
#62
Originally posted by kabooski
eco **** eco nazieco naziKenyou dont give a **** about performanceso stop bull shitting your goals are to have lower emissions,better MPGand increased reliablityyou stated it your self! Nothing of which was the original postYOU have taken it upon your self to ake it a "wonder system"not a "race" system for which was the original intent..Oh and by the reponses already no one gives a fuckexcept ECO ***** like ur selfif you want reliablity and great MPG buy a Honda
eco **** eco nazieco naziKenyou dont give a **** about performanceso stop bull shitting your goals are to have lower emissions,better MPGand increased reliablityyou stated it your self! Nothing of which was the original postYOU have taken it upon your self to ake it a "wonder system"not a "race" system for which was the original intent..Oh and by the reponses already no one gives a fuckexcept ECO ***** like ur selfif you want reliablity and great MPG buy a Honda
Ken
05-04-02, 07:27 PM
#64
Originally posted by kabooski you could of very easily of bought the Kit and tRied it out OR wait for the 2 people with FD's mind you report back on there experiance with the kit
Show me a dyno chart with and without
propane and it's safe and I'll buy it.
Ken
05-04-02, 07:35 PM
#65
Laying Down Rotary Law
WAIT FOR THE 2 PEOPLE with FD's
THAT HAVE BOUGHT THE KIT... BUT WAS ON BACK ORDER TO INSTALL AND REPORT BACK!
THAT IS WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER (which was not you) plans was
The Problem with you is
you are not into drag racing
You have blown engines in the past due to detonation
and you read that it helps in that area
and That is what tickled your ears
not the DRAG RACING aspect and design
Now besides the anti-detonation aspect you see the welsh bastards say it can reduce emissions,increase MPH
WHICH there R&D is 100% dedicated too
and that also intriqued you
and not a drag racing product
You have Hijacked a Thread and have turned it into your own
THAT HAVE BOUGHT THE KIT... BUT WAS ON BACK ORDER TO INSTALL AND REPORT BACK!
THAT IS WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER (which was not you) plans was
The Problem with you is
you are not into drag racing
You have blown engines in the past due to detonation
and you read that it helps in that area
and That is what tickled your ears
not the DRAG RACING aspect and design
Now besides the anti-detonation aspect you see the welsh bastards say it can reduce emissions,increase MPH
WHICH there R&D is 100% dedicated too
and that also intriqued you
and not a drag racing product
You have Hijacked a Thread and have turned it into your own
05-04-02, 07:45 PM
#66
Originally posted by kabooski WAIT FOR THE 2 PEOPLE with FD'sTHAT HAVE BOUGHT THE KIT... BUT WAS ON BACK ORDER TO INSTALL AND REPORT BACK!THAT IS WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER (which was not you) plans wasThe Problem with you is you are not into drag racing You have blown engines in the past due to detonation and you read that it helps in that area
and That is what tickled your ears not the DRAG RACING aspect and design Now besides the anti-detonation aspect you see the welsh bastards say it can reduce emissions,increase MPH WHICH there R&D is 100% dedicated too and that also intriqued you and not a drag racing product You have Hijacked a Thread and have turned it into your own
and That is what tickled your ears not the DRAG RACING aspect and design Now besides the anti-detonation aspect you see the welsh bastards say it can reduce emissions,increase MPH WHICH there R&D is 100% dedicated too and that also intriqued you and not a drag racing product You have Hijacked a Thread and have turned it into your own
Ken
05-04-02, 07:52 PM
#67
Laying Down Rotary Law
Then drop it!
cause it is a Drag Racing ONLY product
Just as much as N.O.S is!
They are both the same
just a diffrent element
Don't take someone esle's Thread/Idea
and then turn it into your own ECO crusade
Leave drag racing products/Ideas to DRAG RACERS!
cause it is a Drag Racing ONLY product
Just as much as N.O.S is!
They are both the same
just a diffrent element
Don't take someone esle's Thread/Idea
and then turn it into your own ECO crusade
Leave drag racing products/Ideas to DRAG RACERS!
05-04-02, 07:55 PM
#68
This thread was not intented to be a debate. It was to find an option that might help owners of RX-7s. I can see that it turned out to be not what I wanted. I'm sorry for the name calling. As I said from the start, just prove it and I'll buy it.
Ken
Ken
05-04-02, 08:01 PM
#69
Laying Down Rotary Law
go back Ken and read the Original propane injection
poster
I said "great IF IT WORKS GOOD FOR YOU I WILL BUY A KIT"
I too will not buy a product unless it has been proven our our cars
I'm patient unlike you it seems
I WILL WAIT TILL HE GET's his KIt
Install the KIT
test the Kit
goes to the track with the Kit
posts he's Pro and Con's
THAT IS CALLED "REAL WORLD" results
not the bullshit paper findings you are trying to research
poster
I said "great IF IT WORKS GOOD FOR YOU I WILL BUY A KIT"
I too will not buy a product unless it has been proven our our cars
I'm patient unlike you it seems
I WILL WAIT TILL HE GET's his KIt
Install the KIT
test the Kit
goes to the track with the Kit
posts he's Pro and Con's
THAT IS CALLED "REAL WORLD" results
not the bullshit paper findings you are trying to research
05-04-02, 08:04 PM
#70
Laying Down Rotary Law
and It is NOT MEANT TO HELP RX7's
You want to know the secreat to having a reliable
Rotary?
-
-
-
-
-
KEEP IT STOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
and drive it like a old lady!
calming down*
You need to wait till people report back
instead of stirring up threats of law-suits <----
That is what really ticked me Off Ken
You want to know the secreat to having a reliable
Rotary?
-
-
-
-
-
KEEP IT STOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
and drive it like a old lady!
calming down*
You need to wait till people report back
instead of stirring up threats of law-suits <----
That is what really ticked me Off Ken
Last edited by kabooski; 05-04-02 at 08:14 PM.
05-04-02, 08:17 PM
#71
Originally posted by kabooski I WILL WAIT TILL HE GET's his KIt Install the KIT test the Kit goes to the track with the Kit posts he's Pro and Con's THAT IS CALLED "REAL WORLD" results not the bullshit paper findings you are trying to research [/B]
I don't know why you are ripping me. We want the same thing. A cost enhancement to our beloved rotaries.
Ken
05-04-02, 08:28 PM
#72
This was posted on the "Big List"
"Dude just ignore those guys. Everybody who is sane knows that you were just trying to let everyone know what you found about a product.
My opinion, at this time, is that propane is a cool idea but not really useful for most of us. Especially since the main technology providers are either complete jerks or come off as very shady (welsh is too much of a salesman imo).
I for one appreciate the work you did. I am not going to waste my time in a flamewar on the daddy-bought-me-a-car forums though."
Ken
"Dude just ignore those guys. Everybody who is sane knows that you were just trying to let everyone know what you found about a product.
My opinion, at this time, is that propane is a cool idea but not really useful for most of us. Especially since the main technology providers are either complete jerks or come off as very shady (welsh is too much of a salesman imo).
I for one appreciate the work you did. I am not going to waste my time in a flamewar on the daddy-bought-me-a-car forums though."
Ken
05-04-02, 11:45 PM
#73
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Kabooski,
Not sure who you are or what your actual background is, but you need to take a big chill pill. Nothing but flaming posts coming from you, most of which are WAY off base regardless of your ignorant slant on things. I doubt you could actually shed one bit of factual information on the propane process or it's benefits. You're a consumer not scientist. Ken is just the MESSENGER. Figure out the coloquialism yourself. Ekool, I agree with Ken. Post the dyno slips. In theory it sounds great and may greatly benefit the rotary if it works as advertised. Prove it's a safe process and that it works. Kabooski, what a wise suggestion that Ken test it on his own engine. Tell you what; since you're into volunteering, why not purchase the kit and try it out for yourself. Report back when you have some real imperical data to share with the forum members. I don't think too many individuals "blink" at the thought of spending several thousand $$$ to replace an engine due to usage of a process which hasn't been determined (by the greater body of readers) to actually work as advertised. It's called being a skeptic. And yes, it'll keep your car healthy and you in one piece. If common sense were common, you'd think more people would have it. I think Ken opened a pandora's box without realizing what would occur as a result. I think Welsh's attack on DR was uncalled for, IMHO. But until I'm presented with evidence that shows Welsh to be wrong, who am I supposed to believe? A "tuner" shop that, I'm guessing, doesn't possess a single employee with any sort of engineering degree, let alone a degree in chemistry, or someone who owns a large corporation with perhaps dozens of "scientists" running actual studies? I will say this; Welsh's priorities and DR's priorities are different. Maybe, just maybe, Welsh knows a bit more about the actual process involved in injecting propane into a gas/diesel engine. I don't think I'd be going out on a very thin limb by suggesting that.
Welsh is on one side, DR is on the other, Ken is just in the middle. He's not an "eco-****" nor a mouthpiece for Welsh. He's simply an information gatherer that happens to be listening to the most educated of the two sides. That's pretty much just plain common sense. How he's a Welsh loyalist by posting their info is beyond me. It's more than DR has offered. Post time slips. Post dyno figures. Post EGT readings, post AIT readings. Post ANYTHING that can be verified and DR can be held accountable for if it doesn't perform as advertised. I'm sure DR would be happy to pay for some dyno time. Maybe they'd be interested in "sponsoring" some dyno time for a local RX7 guy on the list/forum?
Bashing Ken isn't really solving anything. It's a forum. How about trying to inject some factual base of knowledge so that we as forum members/RX7 owners can make an informed decision. None of us has the time to go out and get a degree in chemistry and physics. We rely on those with the knowledge. In that, a certain amount of trust must be placed. Does Welsh have an agenda? Probably. I'm sure DR does as well. I don't buy everything that Welsh has said, FYI, and I'd like to do more research as well. Perhaps a bit more credit should be given to some of the forum members, no? I think most can see a sales smoke screen. As for bias, Ekool, I appreciate the interjection of new ideas like propane, but you're not even an RX7 owner and it's pretty unclear whether or not you're intimitely familiar with the rotary engine. If we're measuring loyalties, I'd say you reside much closer to DR than Ken does to Welsh. Post some facts, quote some physics, do something besides bash Ken.
Michel
95RX7
Florida
Not sure who you are or what your actual background is, but you need to take a big chill pill. Nothing but flaming posts coming from you, most of which are WAY off base regardless of your ignorant slant on things. I doubt you could actually shed one bit of factual information on the propane process or it's benefits. You're a consumer not scientist. Ken is just the MESSENGER. Figure out the coloquialism yourself. Ekool, I agree with Ken. Post the dyno slips. In theory it sounds great and may greatly benefit the rotary if it works as advertised. Prove it's a safe process and that it works. Kabooski, what a wise suggestion that Ken test it on his own engine. Tell you what; since you're into volunteering, why not purchase the kit and try it out for yourself. Report back when you have some real imperical data to share with the forum members. I don't think too many individuals "blink" at the thought of spending several thousand $$$ to replace an engine due to usage of a process which hasn't been determined (by the greater body of readers) to actually work as advertised. It's called being a skeptic. And yes, it'll keep your car healthy and you in one piece. If common sense were common, you'd think more people would have it. I think Ken opened a pandora's box without realizing what would occur as a result. I think Welsh's attack on DR was uncalled for, IMHO. But until I'm presented with evidence that shows Welsh to be wrong, who am I supposed to believe? A "tuner" shop that, I'm guessing, doesn't possess a single employee with any sort of engineering degree, let alone a degree in chemistry, or someone who owns a large corporation with perhaps dozens of "scientists" running actual studies? I will say this; Welsh's priorities and DR's priorities are different. Maybe, just maybe, Welsh knows a bit more about the actual process involved in injecting propane into a gas/diesel engine. I don't think I'd be going out on a very thin limb by suggesting that.
Welsh is on one side, DR is on the other, Ken is just in the middle. He's not an "eco-****" nor a mouthpiece for Welsh. He's simply an information gatherer that happens to be listening to the most educated of the two sides. That's pretty much just plain common sense. How he's a Welsh loyalist by posting their info is beyond me. It's more than DR has offered. Post time slips. Post dyno figures. Post EGT readings, post AIT readings. Post ANYTHING that can be verified and DR can be held accountable for if it doesn't perform as advertised. I'm sure DR would be happy to pay for some dyno time. Maybe they'd be interested in "sponsoring" some dyno time for a local RX7 guy on the list/forum?
Bashing Ken isn't really solving anything. It's a forum. How about trying to inject some factual base of knowledge so that we as forum members/RX7 owners can make an informed decision. None of us has the time to go out and get a degree in chemistry and physics. We rely on those with the knowledge. In that, a certain amount of trust must be placed. Does Welsh have an agenda? Probably. I'm sure DR does as well. I don't buy everything that Welsh has said, FYI, and I'd like to do more research as well. Perhaps a bit more credit should be given to some of the forum members, no? I think most can see a sales smoke screen. As for bias, Ekool, I appreciate the interjection of new ideas like propane, but you're not even an RX7 owner and it's pretty unclear whether or not you're intimitely familiar with the rotary engine. If we're measuring loyalties, I'd say you reside much closer to DR than Ken does to Welsh. Post some facts, quote some physics, do something besides bash Ken.
Michel
95RX7
Florida
05-05-02, 07:23 AM
#74
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brooklyn Park,MN
Posts: 12
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Bashing Ken isn't really solving anything. It's a forum. How about trying to inject some factual base of knowledge so that we as forum members/RX7 owners can make an informed decision. None of us has the time to go out and get a degree in chemistry and physics. We rely on those with the knowledge. In that, a certain amount of trust must be placed. Does Welsh have an agenda? Probably. I'm sure DR does as well. I don't buy everything that Welsh has said, FYI, and I'd like to do more research as well. Perhaps a bit more credit should be given to some of the forum members, no? I think most can see a sales smoke screen. As for bias, Ekool, I appreciate the interjection of new ideas like propane, but you're not even an RX7 owner and it's pretty unclear whether or not you're intimitely familiar with the rotary engine. If we're measuring loyalties, I'd say you reside much closer to DR than Ken does to Welsh. Post some facts, quote some physics, do something besides bash Ken.
Michel
95RX7
Florida
I agree with you. You said what was need to be said.
Thanks
Ed
Michel
95RX7
Florida
I agree with you. You said what was need to be said.
Thanks
Ed
05-05-02, 09:00 AM
#75
Laying Down Rotary Law
Ok very simple
2 forum rx7 owners have placed an order for the propane racing kit
They will install the Kit
Dyno the Kit
take the car to the track and report back 1/4 improvements
and every thing else
How hard is that to understand?
You and Ken buy products based on Theory
I buy products based on "pure" results
Ekool has "proven" results on his application
"welsh" is partially funded by the US goverment
as are many companies trying to research alternative fuel resources
I don't give a rat's *** about alternative fuel's
Ken does
he posted it himself read back
I guess you Mike are also unfamiliar with NOS injection
Want to know propanes effect on rotarys
performance/rotary newbies
call Atkins
2 forum rx7 owners have placed an order for the propane racing kit
They will install the Kit
Dyno the Kit
take the car to the track and report back 1/4 improvements
and every thing else
How hard is that to understand?
You and Ken buy products based on Theory
I buy products based on "pure" results
Ekool has "proven" results on his application
"welsh" is partially funded by the US goverment
as are many companies trying to research alternative fuel resources
I don't give a rat's *** about alternative fuel's
Ken does
he posted it himself read back
I guess you Mike are also unfamiliar with NOS injection
Want to know propanes effect on rotarys
performance/rotary newbies
call Atkins
Last edited by kabooski; 05-05-02 at 09:27 AM.