Possible secret, to pro-longing your Rotary engine(or any automotive engine)
04-30-03, 05:34 PM
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Possible secret, to pro-longing your Rotary engine(or any automotive engine)
...Providing that, it's a brand-new engine.
Being in A+P school(Airframe and Powerplant) you learn the high standards of Aviation engineering, while some standards are similar to automotive, not all are exactly the same.
I've been told, and got to thinking about this recently...has anyone ever tried or, experimented with using Aircraft Reciprocating engine oil, instead of plain old engine oil you can find anywhere??
Here's the difference. Here's what you don't know, haven't been told, or aren't aware of.
Just another way for you to spend money on your car. Guess what? The SAE oil you've spent all your money on throughout your life is Metallic-Ash Detergent oil.
Basically, it is a type of mineral oil with metallic-ash forming additives that protects the inside of an engine from sludge and varnish buildup. It's commonly used today in all cars. However, in aircraft it is unacceptable.
These lubricants contain ash-forming additives to improve their anti-oxidation characteristics. but the leftover ash deposits can build up in the cylinders, or, on your rotors and apex seals. Which, equivaltes into absorbing heat, which tends to cause "pre-ignition."
In the end, these additives have a strong detergent action that us supposed to loosen sludge and carbon deposists which could then flow through the lubrication system and clogs oil passages and filters.
Part II, Aircraft engine oil (AD) or Ashless-dispersant:
Ashless dispersant oil, or, AD is a mineral oil with non-metallic dispersant additives that hold the contaminants in suspension, preventing them from clumping together and forming sludge deposits inside the engine.
Though the additives in this oil DO NOT prevent the formation of carbon, they also do not break loose any sludge or carbon deposits that have formed in the engine previously.
The dispersant additives cause the contaminants that the oil picks up to repel each other so they do not form a screen-clogging sludge, but rather, remain suspended in the oil until collected in the oil filters.
AD Oils also have such good lubricating properties that they are not recommended for the break-in period in new engines, and should only be used after the rings(or apex seals) have properly seated and the oil consumption stabilizes.
However, AD oil is recommended for breaking in some cylinders with modern cylinder-wall treatments.
I found this article to be interesting. Though aircraft re-ciprocating oil isn't readily avaliable at your local Pep-boys, costs is about the same per quart, being only about a dollar more, or a few cents more.
What do you guys think of this idea?
Being in A+P school(Airframe and Powerplant) you learn the high standards of Aviation engineering, while some standards are similar to automotive, not all are exactly the same.
I've been told, and got to thinking about this recently...has anyone ever tried or, experimented with using Aircraft Reciprocating engine oil, instead of plain old engine oil you can find anywhere??
Here's the difference. Here's what you don't know, haven't been told, or aren't aware of.
Just another way for you to spend money on your car. Guess what? The SAE oil you've spent all your money on throughout your life is Metallic-Ash Detergent oil.
Basically, it is a type of mineral oil with metallic-ash forming additives that protects the inside of an engine from sludge and varnish buildup. It's commonly used today in all cars. However, in aircraft it is unacceptable.
These lubricants contain ash-forming additives to improve their anti-oxidation characteristics. but the leftover ash deposits can build up in the cylinders, or, on your rotors and apex seals. Which, equivaltes into absorbing heat, which tends to cause "pre-ignition."
In the end, these additives have a strong detergent action that us supposed to loosen sludge and carbon deposists which could then flow through the lubrication system and clogs oil passages and filters.
Part II, Aircraft engine oil (AD) or Ashless-dispersant:
Ashless dispersant oil, or, AD is a mineral oil with non-metallic dispersant additives that hold the contaminants in suspension, preventing them from clumping together and forming sludge deposits inside the engine.
Though the additives in this oil DO NOT prevent the formation of carbon, they also do not break loose any sludge or carbon deposits that have formed in the engine previously.
The dispersant additives cause the contaminants that the oil picks up to repel each other so they do not form a screen-clogging sludge, but rather, remain suspended in the oil until collected in the oil filters.
AD Oils also have such good lubricating properties that they are not recommended for the break-in period in new engines, and should only be used after the rings(or apex seals) have properly seated and the oil consumption stabilizes.
However, AD oil is recommended for breaking in some cylinders with modern cylinder-wall treatments.
I found this article to be interesting. Though aircraft re-ciprocating oil isn't readily avaliable at your local Pep-boys, costs is about the same per quart, being only about a dollar more, or a few cents more.
What do you guys think of this idea?
04-30-03, 06:55 PM
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racres that come to my work have run oils like that engines last alot longer cranks dont really wear like a norm oiled engine most of it ive seen only comes in a 5 gal drum
04-30-03, 09:34 PM
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10-40 is bad.
stop using it... it contains a type of polymer that isn't good for engines. It is this polymer that allows for such a wide range of viscousity.
Switch to 10W-30 now or 15W-40
stop using it... it contains a type of polymer that isn't good for engines. It is this polymer that allows for such a wide range of viscousity.
Switch to 10W-30 now or 15W-40
05-01-03, 09:36 AM
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10-40 is the same range as 20-50, prob 70% of the people I hear of use 20-50.
Anyway, the aircraft oil sounds pretty good but for someone that daily drives and changes thier oil every other month its prob going to be a pita.
Why dont you try it out of us lol
STEPHEN
Anyway, the aircraft oil sounds pretty good but for someone that daily drives and changes thier oil every other month its prob going to be a pita.
Why dont you try it out of us lol
STEPHEN
05-01-03, 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by SPOautos
10-40 is the same range as 20-50, prob 70% of the people I hear of use 20-50.
Anyway, the aircraft oil sounds pretty good but for someone that daily drives and changes thier oil every other month its prob going to be a pita.
Why dont you try it out of us lol
STEPHEN
10-40 is the same range as 20-50, prob 70% of the people I hear of use 20-50.
Anyway, the aircraft oil sounds pretty good but for someone that daily drives and changes thier oil every other month its prob going to be a pita.
Why dont you try it out of us lol
STEPHEN
05-01-03, 05:29 PM
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Well some of us don't live right next to an airport!
Sounds pretty good to me. I've always wondered about things like that. The only thing we really know about the automotive products we use for our cars is what we hear on TV. Or what people who have used the product tell us....which is usually along the lines of 'Well, I've used it for awhile...doesn't seem to be any problem...works for me!"
Sounds pretty good to me. I've always wondered about things like that. The only thing we really know about the automotive products we use for our cars is what we hear on TV. Or what people who have used the product tell us....which is usually along the lines of 'Well, I've used it for awhile...doesn't seem to be any problem...works for me!"
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05-02-03, 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by mynamegotjacked
Well some of us don't live right next to an airport!
Sounds pretty good to me. I've always wondered about things like that. The only thing we really know about the automotive products we use for our cars is what we hear on TV. Or what people who have used the product tell us....which is usually along the lines of 'Well, I've used it for awhile...doesn't seem to be any problem...works for me!"
Well some of us don't live right next to an airport!
Sounds pretty good to me. I've always wondered about things like that. The only thing we really know about the automotive products we use for our cars is what we hear on TV. Or what people who have used the product tell us....which is usually along the lines of 'Well, I've used it for awhile...doesn't seem to be any problem...works for me!"
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/...n_Oil_217.html
You might too, want to get an aircraft filter. I'm not positive, but it MAY bolt right into your set-up. Aircraft filters, they might be better, and are supposed to be easier for visual inspection :
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/...lters_314.html
05-04-03, 09:55 AM
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Re: Possible secret, to pro-longing your Rotary engine(or any automotive engine)
Originally posted by Elevation7
...Providing that, it's a brand-new engine.
Part II, Aircraft engine oil (AD) or Ashless-dispersant:
Ashless dispersant oil, or, AD is a mineral oil with non-metallic dispersant additives that hold the contaminants in suspension, preventing them from clumping together and forming sludge deposits inside the engine.
Though the additives in this oil DO NOT prevent the formation of carbon, they also do not break loose any sludge or carbon deposits that have formed in the engine previously.
The dispersant additives cause the contaminants that the oil picks up to repel each other so they do not form a screen-clogging sludge, but rather, remain suspended in the oil until collected in the oil filters.
AD Oils also have such good lubricating properties that they are not recommended for the break-in period in new engines, and should only be used after the rings(or apex seals) have properly seated and the oil consumption stabilizes.
However, AD oil is recommended for breaking in some cylinders with modern cylinder-wall treatments.
What do you guys think of this idea?
...Providing that, it's a brand-new engine.
Part II, Aircraft engine oil (AD) or Ashless-dispersant:
Ashless dispersant oil, or, AD is a mineral oil with non-metallic dispersant additives that hold the contaminants in suspension, preventing them from clumping together and forming sludge deposits inside the engine.
Though the additives in this oil DO NOT prevent the formation of carbon, they also do not break loose any sludge or carbon deposits that have formed in the engine previously.
The dispersant additives cause the contaminants that the oil picks up to repel each other so they do not form a screen-clogging sludge, but rather, remain suspended in the oil until collected in the oil filters.
AD Oils also have such good lubricating properties that they are not recommended for the break-in period in new engines, and should only be used after the rings(or apex seals) have properly seated and the oil consumption stabilizes.
However, AD oil is recommended for breaking in some cylinders with modern cylinder-wall treatments.
What do you guys think of this idea?
I used to work for an FBO in FT lauderdale and got the aircraft oil and gas for free. Worked well but can't say if it did any better or worse.....The FD blew a coolant seal at about 96K miles after I sold it.
Anthony
05-04-03, 11:30 PM
#12
Originally posted by Elevation7
You can actually oder a case of Aircraft oil for $30. About the same of what you'd pay for. Select your poison.
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/...n_Oil_217.html
You might too, want to get an aircraft filter. I'm not positive, but it MAY bolt right into your set-up. Aircraft filters, they might be better, and are supposed to be easier for visual inspection :
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/...lters_314.html
You can actually oder a case of Aircraft oil for $30. About the same of what you'd pay for. Select your poison.
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/...n_Oil_217.html
You might too, want to get an aircraft filter. I'm not positive, but it MAY bolt right into your set-up. Aircraft filters, they might be better, and are supposed to be easier for visual inspection :
http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/...lters_314.html
I too have past A&P experiance. This never crossed my mind in the past. But, how does this aviation oil burn? Rotarys use oil with an OMP if you didn't know. Does it burn clean like 2 cycle oil?
05-05-03, 06:47 AM
#13
I'd like to hear more about not using 10W-40. Dave, of Mazdee's, suggested It to me. In fact, I'm using It right now.
Originally posted by Cheers!
10-40 is bad.
stop using it... it contains a type of polymer that isn't good for engines. It is this polymer that allows for such a wide range of viscousity.
Switch to 10W-30 now or 15W-40
10-40 is bad.
stop using it... it contains a type of polymer that isn't good for engines. It is this polymer that allows for such a wide range of viscousity.
Switch to 10W-30 now or 15W-40
05-07-03, 05:08 PM
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go to Mazdatrix.com Look under their facts section. they've got a nice write-up on not using 10W-40... pretty much just use Castrol Brand 20W50 or 10W30 depending on the weather.
05-09-03, 12:52 AM
#15
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Personally, I think the hype about the the polymers required for the 10W40 spread is BS. First, as was already mentioned, the spread is the same as 20W50. Second, modern oils are quite advanced, even over those of a few years ago.
I run 10W40 now, but I aviation oil is very intriguing. Im working on getting my A&P, and my dad has been one for over 30 years.
I run 10W40 now, but I aviation oil is very intriguing. Im working on getting my A&P, and my dad has been one for over 30 years.
05-10-03, 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by t-von
But, how does this aviation oil burn? Rotarys use oil with an OMP if you didn't know. Does it burn clean like 2 cycle oil?
But, how does this aviation oil burn? Rotarys use oil with an OMP if you didn't know. Does it burn clean like 2 cycle oil?
05-13-03, 04:01 PM
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I dont think aircraft piston oil will make that much of a improvment in youre car, todays automotive oils are so good .Plus you will have to find a local airport repair station that services pistion aircraft to find these oils some major airports dont.I am a licensed aircraft tech and I have never heard of any real improvment with aircraft oil, it is made to perform at a higher standared.
05-16-03, 10:22 AM
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What about other oil treatments? Maybe aircraft oil is the way to go. But has anybody tried anything for extended periods of time? And how did there engine look afterwards? The only thing that keeps us from using all of these other additives/oils, is the fact, that we really don't know a lot about our cars.......... So if anyone has tried somthing, that made their engine work better, run smoother, and ware better, Hook me up!!!!!!!!!
05-16-03, 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by Pepsi88X-7
What about other oil treatments? Maybe aircraft oil is the way to go. But has anybody tried anything for extended periods of time? And how did there engine look afterwards? The only thing that keeps us from using all of these other additives/oils, is the fact, that we really don't know a lot about our cars.......... So if anyone has tried somthing, that made their engine work better, run smoother, and ware better, Hook me up!!!!!!!!!
What about other oil treatments? Maybe aircraft oil is the way to go. But has anybody tried anything for extended periods of time? And how did there engine look afterwards? The only thing that keeps us from using all of these other additives/oils, is the fact, that we really don't know a lot about our cars.......... So if anyone has tried somthing, that made their engine work better, run smoother, and ware better, Hook me up!!!!!!!!!
05-16-03, 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Pepsi88X-7
What about other oil treatments? Maybe aircraft oil is the way to go. But has anybody tried anything for extended periods of time? And how did there engine look afterwards? The only thing that keeps us from using all of these other additives/oils, is the fact, that we really don't know a lot about our cars.......... So if anyone has tried somthing, that made their engine work better, run smoother, and ware better, Hook me up!!!!!!!!!
What about other oil treatments? Maybe aircraft oil is the way to go. But has anybody tried anything for extended periods of time? And how did there engine look afterwards? The only thing that keeps us from using all of these other additives/oils, is the fact, that we really don't know a lot about our cars.......... So if anyone has tried somthing, that made their engine work better, run smoother, and ware better, Hook me up!!!!!!!!!
05-16-03, 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
Personally, I think the hype about the the polymers required for the 10W40 spread is BS. First, as was already mentioned, the spread is the same as 20W50. Second, modern oils are quite advanced, even over those of a few years ago.
I run 10W40 now, but I aviation oil is very intriguing. Im working on getting my A&P, and my dad has been one for over 30 years.
Personally, I think the hype about the the polymers required for the 10W40 spread is BS. First, as was already mentioned, the spread is the same as 20W50. Second, modern oils are quite advanced, even over those of a few years ago.
I run 10W40 now, but I aviation oil is very intriguing. Im working on getting my A&P, and my dad has been one for over 30 years.
05-17-03, 05:40 PM
#23
Airflow is my life
Oh no another A&P! 
I'll bring this up to my dad (20yr A&P, now 20yr pilot). He has his own GA plane (Mooney). I been an A&P for 20yrs but never worked GA. I do remember reading about the AD oil, Ill see what I can dig up. Oh and if you have cats, do NOT run 100LL. "Low lead" means it has less lead than 114/145 (purple warbird high compression engine wicked gas). It still has ALOT more lead than the old automotive fuels ever had and itll ruin your cat.
I'll bring this up to my dad (20yr A&P, now 20yr pilot). He has his own GA plane (Mooney). I been an A&P for 20yrs but never worked GA. I do remember reading about the AD oil, Ill see what I can dig up. Oh and if you have cats, do NOT run 100LL. "Low lead" means it has less lead than 114/145 (purple warbird high compression engine wicked gas). It still has ALOT more lead than the old automotive fuels ever had and itll ruin your cat.
05-20-03, 09:52 PM
#24
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Originally posted by rxseven
MYSTERY MARVEL OIL in the crankcase and gas tank. That is the only additive I know that makes a difference and the only one I trust.
MYSTERY MARVEL OIL in the crankcase and gas tank. That is the only additive I know that makes a difference and the only one I trust.
05-20-03, 10:15 PM
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uhmm well since we're talking about Air craft piston engine oil and using it in rotaries..
Has anyone even thought of talking to Atkins Rotary since they make rotary engines for airplanes and could probably be the best ppl to say wether it really makes a difference .. and if they're not using it there's could be a reason .. for example it doesn't burn too well
also if they do use it they could also have different air filters if needed..
Has anyone even thought of talking to Atkins Rotary since they make rotary engines for airplanes and could probably be the best ppl to say wether it really makes a difference .. and if they're not using it there's could be a reason .. for example it doesn't burn too well
also if they do use it they could also have different air filters if needed..