t-von

iTrader: (8)

Thx for the reply about the premix. You run at an lower premixing ratio than astrochild7. Is your OMP still functional?

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Just checked my email and nothing.

Maxthe7man

Compression tests will probably show the motor to be ok, if the engine is not at operating temps, thats what I found the motor would show good when dead cold or even slightly warm, but run it ten miles then test it, completelly different, car would barely fire, start on one rotor then the other would fire as it got past 500 rpm.. The first batch warped bad with heat, to go from reasonable compression to no being able to even make the guage quiver.. Let it cool down, and magically it came back to life, they must have warping bad... It wasnt detonation or excessive heat that warped them either, it was material choice and no hardening in the seal edge..
Saying you threw x-amount of boost at it, and its fine doesnt say the motor is tough, or in good shape, in fact the sicker the motor, the more boost it will take without blowing as more and more the of the chamber pressure leaks to a combustion face in another cycle or past the other seals into the oil sump and out the oil breather..An engine with excessive blow by and a higher percentage of leak down effectively becomes a lower compression ratio engine..

88IntegraLS

Mine had those hand engraved numbers just like yours. I remeber because your seals looked the same as the ones I used. I'm still going strong too with some heavy revving, but my housings are not smooth like before.

Another thing to consider, in the "squawks" section of rotary aviation's web site ("squawk mens problem, in aviation slang) there is absolutely no mention of rotary engine loss of compression or excessive wear. Its as if rotary aviation does not officially acknowlege the reports we RX7 builders have produced through our own experiences.

patman

iTrader: (3)

20100 miles almost exactly. for the first 8k or so i was running stock ecu, stock turbo, 9.4:1 rotors, 30% street port, at 9 psi. even spiked to 14 and had major detonation once due to wastegate failure.

after that i put on the microtech, stock turbo, 10 psi. for about 5k

since then, microtech, to4b, 11 psi until about 1k ago, moved up to 14 psi.

stock tmic until 14 psi switch.

Youre in luck tho, i have my turbo and manifold off right now for turbo rebuild, so i stuck a finger inside the exhaust ports. As far as i can tell, the housings feel silky smooth. of course i cant see em, but theres nothing i can detect with a finger.

pat

EDIT: mine were the ones with the engraved numbers, and i used RA springs too, i think (dont really remember)

patman

iTrader: (3)

something else that might make a difference:

im not sure if this is why these worked so well for me, but i did my usual 2000 mile break in
under 4k, no boost for 500 miles, 3 oil changes
under 5k, no boost for 500, then change oil again
under 6k, minimal boost for 500
any revs, minimal boost for 500, change oil again
then let her rip

i did cheat a little as usual, but that basically what i shoot for.

pat

t-von

iTrader: (8)

It was mentioned that these seals take longer to break in properly. Pat do you also premix?

astrochild7

iTrader: (3)

oh yeah.. to add to the premix... I still run elec. metering pump.. but im only running the housing injectors.. other 2 are blocked off at pump... I run either amsoil or redline oil... with sabre smokless amsoil...

I really think that R.A. should be addressing these issues.. If I had a plane w/RA seals in it.. I nver fly it... untill this is all cleared up..... and I think I'll start spec'ing my new engine. and pull this one, soon....

patman

iTrader: (3)

i dont premix, but i run 2 stroke oil through the MOP as per this thread

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/diy-2-stroke-mop-write-up-pics-372329/

well...i have been doing that for 10k miles or so that is. before that i just had the stock MOP system.

also, i ran 87 octane fuel until 11 psi, 89 till 14 psi. now i run 91 or 93, whichever one i stop at.

moehler

iTrader: (12)

interesting - thanks for the info.

dubulup

Single turbo
Seals with the numbers on them and before the warning about the springs (so I have RA springs)
Whatever premix I can find ~1oz per gallon
17psi
Water injection
Broke in motor slowly

no boost 3k rpms for 1k mi
3-4psi 4.5k rpm for 500 mi
10psi 6.5k rpm for 500 mi
17psi 8k rpm for 8k mi and spanking anything on the street

To the people with no break in's…how can you even blame the seal?

moehler

iTrader: (12)

I'm wondering if we are getting somewhere with these longer break-in's.

Can anybody who has had problems with these seals (warping or eating housings) please comment on what sort of break-in period was used?

patman

iTrader: (3)

it is interesting how none of them failed after 10k

maybe you should make a option for failed under 2k

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Hmmm the plot thickens!

dubulup

I noticed people complaining about the seals were building motors and racing the next day (oz) or pushing 15psi, so I followed suit [patman] and posted my break in as well. Premix could be a factor, although I think every high hp rotary does this.

Side note, I tuned another motor up to 19psi with these seals (after a break in, shorter than mine) and it did fine and begged for more. My friend sold his car, so I don't know the status.

scathcart

My break-ins typically are between 2000-4000 miles, depending on if new bearings were installed or not.
4000 miles of very light throttle, multiple oil changes, nothing over 4000 rpm... seals ate housings. Premixing 80:1, 100:1, 120:1, stock MOP: seals ate housings. Stock ECU N/A: seals ate housings. Stock ECU TII: seals ate housings. EMS tuning very lean:
seals ate housings.
I don't know what other variable I could change.

patman

iTrader: (3)

well i dont know, it just seems pretty weird that i and some other people have had such great experiences with them, while some such as yourself have had such bad ones.

i cant say what it is, but there has to be something. i doubt if the seals vary that much.

alberto_mg

seems like you loose a lot of emails.

let me refresh your memory then.

remember sleepr1's car that you built the motor, tuned it and it lasted exactly 1600 miles? i spoke with Xaviar about it and emailed both of you guys about it 5 times now since May and left you 5 voice mails on your answering machine. i'm still waiting on a return call or response.

you finally sent me an email 2 weeks ago and responded to one of my emails saying you tuned the car to run at 13psi but not at 10 psi. am i jogging your memory yet?

i'm still waiting for a response as to what you are going to do for me in regards to the warranty on the motor you built, broke in and tuned. seems like you took care of a few people with similar symptoms as I. why you are blowing me off?

Jason

iTrader: (5)

We used stock mazda seals in that car and was over a year ago. Car was tuned for 13-14 lbs per Mannys request. It was not tuned for 10lbs so Im not sure what the A/F's were down there. As I recall the car ran great for Manny so Im not sure what lead to your issues. This was all in the email I sent you a couple of weeks ago and that is the last email I got from you. We warrenty internal parts such as bearings, but not seals. Only reason we warrantied these couple of motors was we are unsure why the seals warped and the possiblilty of them being defective.

You want me to help you out when all you do is bash me on this forum?

Jason

scathcart

They haven't had their motors apart yet.

astrochild7

iTrader: (3)

well, let me put hamper to the breakin idea... when I fired Mine the first time, I ran it for 15min.. then checked compression it was excellent... my car only saw 500 miles.. below 4k after that. I've been ripping it left and right.....

I think the richer it is, the longer they last..

t-von

iTrader: (8)

What kind of A/F ratios are you running?

dubulup

any break-in is better than boosting 15psi on seals that haven't been heat cycled in their new enviroment.

I'm okay with a 500 mi break-in if the bearings in the motor are used or pre-broke in.

patman

iTrader: (3)

yeah me too.

i am running pretty rich a/f now, but on the stock ecu i had to be leaning way out running 8 psi with a big port.

alberto_mg

Jason,

My issue is that the 2000 mile motor you guys built, broke in and tuned has 102 psi compression on the front rotor and 85 on the rear. Something isn't right. It could be a defective part like a bad batch of apex seals or side seals that weren't properly set or any one of a few other items.

I've sent you guys 5 emails about it now, talked to Xaviar twice, left voicemails after each email and called multiple other times. I can easily upload my phone records to prove this. Not having heard back from anyone, you left me no choice but to start making noise on the forum. Go back and read my emails it's all there. Or give Manny a call he was cc'ed on each email and even responded back to both me and Xaviar. I don't like bashing people on a forum but what choice did you leave me?

Some of your comments really puzzle me...

As to what I want - I want you to stand behind your word and what you advertise. You advertise engines with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty. It is even on the receipt. There is no provision for bearings or what not.

Furthermore, how can you tune for 13psi and not tune for 10psi? That doesn't make any sense to me. That is like saying the car is safe to drive at 100mph but not 70mph.

Manny put very few miles on the car after he took delivery from you and sold it to me shortly thereafter. Again, this in Manny's emailed respones to both Xaviar and myself.

As for bashing you, I made two negative comments about your company after you guys blew me off since May. In the past I had left many positive comments about your company. If you don't me to bash you, then provide me with the customer service you used to before I had a major problem with one of your products/services. It is not an unreasonable request is it?

I'm uploading a copy of the email you sent me so you can see exactly what you wrote. It is very non-commital and doesn't answer any of the questions about how we are going to proceed on this.

I look forward to hearing from you.