atpeak23

We Heli-arched the Housings before assembly..

http://www.geocities.com/thefastn2fu...neteardown.htm

Scalliwag

Judging by the pictures the motor seemed to have extremely high miles and overheated and/or very long intervals between oil changes. The pitting in the water jacket area indicate it was ran for a prolonged period of time with straight water in the cooling system or a very weak coolant mixture.
Going strictly off the pictures mind you there appears to be a lot of wear on the side housings and probably the rotor housings have a good amount of corner seal wear.
At least every motor I have torn down and many did not look this bad did not make the grade to use either the side plates or rotor housings. We will talk about the one time I did however later
I am very curious to know what the compression readings are and if it smokes like a chimney.
I am not wanting this to come across as a flame or anything like that. Everyone on the forum that knows me knows I am not the type of person to do that.
But I really doubt with all the builders here that I am the only person that wondered the same thing. Anytime you have to whip the tig out there are usually more than one problem.

Take it from someone who crossed there fingers real tight one time and put a motor together when the gut feeling was to get better components and it bit me in the *** real good. I am hoping your luck is much better than mine and/or that these components were in better shape than the pictures indicated.

Scalliwag

BTW right click the red X where the picture is supposed to be and then click "show picture" if it does not show up. It is a Geocities hosted pic.

atpeak23

scali..thats ok.. be straight forward.. The rotor housings Trachoid surface in the photo is taped up.. so when we bead blasted it... the Trachoid surface was protected.. the Water Jacket is new again.. we Heli-arched them and they are back to 100% solid... no epoxi there..

the plan is to have it in the car by saturday.. I can definitly let you know what the results are.. Thanks for the info.. I am here to learn and help others learn..

Scalliwag

What did the area where the corner seals rub the rotor housing look like? I would expect a pretty good groove in it. One good thing is that since this is an NA you can get by with a *little* more where on some components especially if you don't drive it too hard.
Did you use the old seals?

atpeak23

Yeah I put New 2-piece seals in it....groove wasn't bad at all where the corner seals swipe by.. I could not catch my finger nail on it.. there was a small groove...but again..I couldnt catch my finger nail on it.. I think were ok.. I never drove the car with anything more than Stock parts for about 136k miles...

Node

iTrader: (1)

whats heli-arching

atpeak23

Is a machine used to weld Aluminum(for rotor housings).. gotta be really skilled to do it right because you have to get the metall the right temperature without it messing up.. I didn't do it myself I know someone that does it profesionally and he did it for me.. I think the machine is like $200 if you go cheap.. but it isn't the machine its the "Skill" that makes the difference..

Scalliwag

Heliarc is an old term. Most people refer to it as TIG welding (tungsten inert gas). It looks like a combination of arc welding and brazing. You basically have an arc welder that instead of a welding rod it uses a a short tungsten rod that is ground to a sharp point. It is referred to as non-consumable because the tungsten does not burn off when you strike an arc with it. Actually is does but it is really super slow and you keep resharpening the tip. You use a filler rod just like when brazing after you make the arc with the tungsten.
The tungsten creates an arc that melts the base metal and the filler rod, hence a weld.
While a cheap wire welder or MIG (metallic inert gas) can be picked up for $200 a TIG is a different dawg.
You would be VERY lucky to find even a old TIG welder for $200.
The older ones used a foot pedal kind of like a sewing machine. It takes a higher amperage to start an arc on metal. But the optimum welding amperage becomes lower after the arc starts. The pedal controls a fairly small amperage range. You let up on the pedal after you strike the arc and the amperage backs off.
The newer TIG's have circuits that you can adjust the amount of amperage to back the welder down to and the amount of time to back it down after the arc starts.

So you have one hand striking an arc, one hand feeding the filler metal, and your foot controlling the amperage. Sound hard? You bet your sweet *** that this takes some serious time to learn and many people just flat *** cannot do it no matter how long you gave them.
TIG is capable of welding a shitload of alloys as long as you know what you are doing and have the correct filler rod.
If anyone comes across a $200 TIG machine that actually works, please let me know!

Node

iTrader: (1)

ok, I know what TIG is, but thanks for the further explanation

atpeak23

I didn't know that much about it.. thanks..

atpeak23

Scalliwag

The heli-arc didn't last but for one day.. lol. the front rotor housing is full of water.. oh well.. now we know.. it was a good weld.. i am gonna tear her back down tommarrow and replace the housing..

for those that are reading this.. if your Water-jacket is busted then its time for a new one.. not a fixer uper...

Scalliwag

Damn that sucks. I really hoped my gut feeling on it was wrong. Except for the housing at least you can reuse the seals and gaskets. So you are *only* out the labor for the most part.
Most of us have been there dude. Some have been there but just won't admit it.
Don't bead blast the sides of the rotor housings BTW. That is a machined surface that can get you in trouble as well. I only bead blast the outside of the housings if I do anything at all.
A fine brass brush or extra fine steel wool and some kerosene is what I usually use.
I know I don't have to tell you to really look everything over good when you get this tore back down.

atpeak23

Got the motor pulled tonight.. and on the engine stand.. and i broke the previous motor down that was in there.. it has a good back housing.. so i may go with two good back housings on the N/A... Yeah its a humbling experience having to redo a ton of work..
Oh well.. I don't care if It isn't the heli-arc welding if in fact that was the problem when we get it tore down(may not be..I haven't seen it with my own eyes...I will not use that front housing no matter what...

I heard that you can't run any emissions with two back housings? know anything about that scalli?

thanks

Scalliwag

I guess that is possible but I am pretty sure there is nothing to keep you from using two rears.

If there is apex seal wear that will cause a problem for you though. The corner seal will be on the other side if used as a front housing.
You will lose compression there. The bigger the gap the more compression loss. Even though corner seal wear sucks already, at least if the wear is on the same side as the corner seal it will at least seal better because it will be able to get in the groove.
What you need to do is use the housing with the LEAST amount of corner seal wear on the FRONT.

atpeak23

Ok.. I have seen it with my own eyes it wasn't the arc-welding.. it was infact a tiny hole in the front housing exhaust port..it was behind the sleeve and even after we ripped the sleeve out .. we still couldn't see it.. so we taped one side of the Housing around the exhaust again(lol) and filled her with water and there she ran a nice stream of water out of the hole.. ah..
All this madness over a pin hole..

now

iTrader: (1)

Who ever did that weld must have been really talented
because, as aluminum gets old it gets rotten
especially if coolant or water has been running past or
through it for extended periods of time.
it becomes almost impossible to weld, I have tried
and it isn't easy.
And yes the tig welder isnt cheap the one I have was 2800.00

matt

atpeak23

He is good.. d*m good.. does all the welding for the company he works for .. he can weld anything..

Scalliwag

So good he can weld ice!
Did this rotor housing fill wth coolant before it was rebuilt or do you know it's history?