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Anyone that placed a down payment have plans on using it on a 20B?
As far as I know, one member is planning on using it with a 20B being built for them and has sent me photos of the rear iron to see if there are any glaringly obvious issues- which there does not seem to be.
The 20B rear iron bolt pattern, starter port, and pretty much all details regarding the clutch system look to be the same as a 13BREW Auto rear iron, so I see no reason why this would not work, as it should be identical in its operation.
I am receiving the last of the parts this following week, and will be posting photos of the entire package.
There will be 6 more kits ready for anyone else that is interested once posted (minus a few locally in-stock parts that will be purchased upon order placement).
After some discussion with the paying members of the first 4 kits, I have elected to upgrade the hard line to cupronickel to resist rusting, I've changed all the bolts to Zinc Plated Alloy Steel so they don't rust easily like the Black Oxide bolts that the kit was priced with, and there is also a banjo bolt and eyelet included in the kit to affix to the slave cylinder, with an integrated bleed nipple to allow the slave cylinder to be bled easier, though it shouldn't need it (but just in case).
The kit price is now $1550 USD - SHIPPED due to these upgrades, which is a mere $50 USD increase. I am losing a lot more than that on the Zinc plated hardware upgrade and banjo hardware alone, so I think the small increase is fair considering everything included in the kit. That is the absolute lowest price I can affordably make this kit considering the time and money and coffees and lunches for people involved in helping this become a reality at a fair price.
Perhaps in the future the price may come down if I order the machined items in a larger quantity, but I can't say for sure.
So look out for some photos of the entire kit as it will be packaged in the coming weeks.
If the remaining 6 are sold soon, I'll be doing another run in January or February, so anyone waiting for their bills from Christmas shopping will have another chance in the new year to upgrade.
Thanks to all the interested parties and those that put the downpayment to make this happen.
Count me in... I'll need something stronger for my 20b RX8 build.I have an RX8 5spd to put in for now, but would rather have a 6spd and no fear of shredding the trans. Please gear sets for the RX8 trans are over $6000... This seems like a better deal... hahaha
if somehow these are still available by the time I get my income tax I'll get one. 2019 is looking to be a good year, moved some things around and may actually be able to keep the FD
Two kits have been shipped, one in December, and one should be arriving to its customer tomorrow.
There are still 6 kits left for this run, and after all these are gone, the price will be increased slightly to cover the expense of the upgrades that I've added to the kits for the second run if there is still interest in them.
The fasteners are now zinc plated, and the clutch line is now a stainless braided hose with 3000psi tested crimp connections (DOT), and a banjo union with an integrated bleeder so you can bleed the included slave cylinder easier from right around where the stock slave cylinder bleed port is. your stock master cylinder hoses should connect up to it like it does in the stock location, so if you have a stainless master line, you can still use it.
I retrieved my lightbox from storage, so I've been taking a few photos here and there, and will be posting them soon so you can see the quality of the kits and the thought put into them.
After these remaining 6 kits are gone, I will most likely do one more run, which will be completed sooner this time- as all the kinks from suppliers and whatnot have been worked out.
I also purchased one of each starter motor model to verify misinformation on this and other boards.
I now have an FC, FD, and RX8 starter. The starters that will work with this starter mount are the FC and the FD starters that I will show in the photos coming in a few days. The RX8 starters could be modified to work, but it's not recommended. There are 2.0kw versions of the FC and FD starters available if you really need a little more oomph. Also, it's more likely that those buying the kit are FC/FD guys, so I'm ok with this. The RX8 starters should work as well, but they will need material machined off the mounting flange on the starter nose (I don't recommend it).
I'd like to thank those early adopters who have purchased and made this happen and have been patient. This was only made possible by their interest and investment.
The slave cylinders are available again, yes. Through another supplier as well as the first- so stock is no longer an issue there.
When someone orders a kit, I put in an order for a slave cylinder or two. They are one of the more expensive parts, so I'd rather not sit on a bunch of them and pay interest. They don't take long to arrive. I have enough slave cylinders for the remaining two kits that have been downpayed already.
The only hold-up on those kits are the mounting bracket for the stainless hose to attach it to the transmission so it doesn't flop around, along with the inspection cover for those with Manual Rear Irons- both of which are being sent out for production tomorrow.
The first two buyers requested that I send the kits to them without those two pieces and they will be sent a small 2nd package with them when I get them.
Everything else is here (photos coming, was busy with holidays and doing inventory).
Once the last two parts come in, I will resume taking orders. In the mean time while those are being produced, I am preparing the photos, boxes, packaging, etc. so that wait time is minimized for future orders- as the first four guys have been waiting far too long by my standards, but they've been patient.
I'm one of the first to receive this, the quality is outstanding; if you're thinking of this kit I doubt you'll be disappointed. I'm still waiting for my engine to come back and have to order the box next, but I've tested the adapter plate on a spare 20B rear iron and it fits like a glove. The other components sourced and machined are high quality; the starter mount is glorious to just look at! Looking forward to mating the 20B and box and going manual.
Careless has been a fantastic help to me so far and excellent communications - double thumbs up!
i got everything laid out for photos and took some the other day. I'm adding more lighting this evening as they turned out a little dark, but i will 100% be posting a photo sometime overnight, so check back tomorrow and you'll see what the kit is comprised of if you're wondering.
I got about 3-4 kits left, and then I will be looking at doing at least one more run if people are still interested.
photo as promised. not the best photo of the bunch, i'll post a few more later. just an idea of everything included in the kit (manual inspection cover not shown, only automatic version in lower right corner).
I also received my kit a few days ago. Starting with the packaging, it arrived in a neat box with many boxes inside it. Each cut perfectly to fit against each other for no rattles and neatly labeled with printed stickers. All the components are top notch quality and I was especially impressed by the starter mount’s beauty. Every single edge on all parts has a nice bevel so it looks very high grade. The entire thing from packaging to product looks very professional and on par with some of the best in the industry. Can’t wait for my car to be up and running!!
I think in the future if Careless developed/offered a shifter adapter and crossmember for FC/FD this would complete this kit and people would start buying it like bread!
Other than that, I want to point out that the OEM shifters from these transmissions feel great and Z’s are one of the few cars that not many people get short shifters.
That being said, most shifter relocation kits for this trans convert it to a short shifter. Which is not desirable for me personally.
Mazworx seems to make a nice relocation kit that keeps OEM shifter AND seems to be perfect length for the FC chassis. I’ll be going with that for now.
I also received my kit a few days ago. Starting with the packaging, it arrived in a neat box with many boxes inside it. Each cut perfectly to fit against each other for no rattles and neatly labeled with printed stickers. All the components are top notch quality and I was especially impressed by the starter mount’s beauty. Every single edge on all parts has a nice bevel so it looks very high grade. The entire thing from packaging to product looks very professional and on par with some of the best in the industry. Can’t wait for my car to be up and running!!
Thanks Sash91, glad to hear. If you have any issues with it or when you're ready to install, please let me know so we can have a chat beforehand.
I think in the future if Careless developed/offered a shifter adapter and crossmember for FC/FD this would complete this kit and people would start buying it like bread!
Other than that, I want to point out that the OEM shifters from these transmissions feel great and Z’s are one of the few cars that not many people get short shifters.
That being said, most shifter relocation kits for this trans convert it to a short shifter. Which is not desirable for me personally.
Mazworx seems to make a nice relocation kit that keeps OEM shifter AND seems to be perfect length for the FC chassis. I’ll be going with that for now.
My own shifter solution is on the horizon. I actually have 4 different shifter concepts that I am working on, one of which uses the original 350/370z shifter, so you just remove it from the factory cup and install it in the new one. That makes the number of parts that require machining on my end to be fairly low, and people are throwing away stock 350z shifters when they go with something like a CD999 or whatever, so it can be had cheaply... But I might go with one of my other designs since I like to make things non-chassis specific, so to speak- and they offer more adjustability. On very small chassis, the shifter might have to be moved much further forward, so my other concepts are "infinitely adjustable" if you want to look at it that way. I also like the way the stock shifter feels too. It's easy to mis-shift with the short-throw shifters for 350z's. I find their stockers feel almost perfect already.
As far as the crossmember thing... I won't be able to tackle that unless I have access to an FC or FD with a kit that someone decides to purchase from me. We developed this kit on a race car, so the primary goal was to get the trans to work and figure out the chassis mounting later. The car is far from stock, so tying into the frame rails was an easy decision. If I can somehow find an FC locally with a blown 13b that I can use just for mock-up, I'll do it.
But I think a shifter is more important at this point.
May have been answered already, but does this work on both an auto and a manual rear iron?
Yes, absolutely. It was developed using a car that is running an AT rear iron. The bolt on the top of the AT and MT irons that are different are not used anyway because the Z trans has a bolt that goes through the same location in both instances, thus the two would hit each-other. So no matter, AT or MT rear iron, the plate installs identically and uses all the same 5 holes, which are M10 and are plenty strong to hold the trans. I also include the hollow dowels that some people forget to install in the iron when rebuilding their motors, or they come out with the transmission they remove, and they forget that they're supposed to go there. The serve to take some of the torsional load on the trans and they also locate the transmission precisely. The ones I include are genuine mazda parts as well.
I tried to make the kit include everything required minus the mount, driveshaft, and speed sensor, as the 350Z trans doesn't have one in the transmission for the speedo gauge. They use ABS signal as far as I know. There are other people who make speedo sensor mounts but IMHO they're a tad overpriced, so I might make something similar in the future with different options for different speedo signal patterns.
Also, I include a cover plate for the left over MT top inspection port, and the AT starter rectangular hole that is present when the adapter is installed (rectangle item pictured underneath the large round adapter plate).
You'll notice it has a rounded cut-out on one end. I designed it this way so that anyone who might have removed their water tube on the side of the rear iron next to the spark plugs on the last housing and replaced it with an AN fitting can install the fitting with a socket or wrench and the hex will not come in contact with the cover plate or bottom out on the plate before getting tight enough on the iron (if that makes sense). You can even install a regular rubber water hose all the way onto the tube as it's meant to be from factory.
Small details, but it makes the kit work without issue in all possible situations.
I have an AT and an MT iron here now that I will be taking photos of with the parts installed, but please keep in mind that it feels like -25°C (-13°F) right now where I am, so the last thing I wanna do right now is fiddle with metal objects out in the work shop.
The new slave / throwout bearing I have been working on adapting comes in a few bearing face styles, one of which should work with the twin disk OS Giken, which I believe is pretty much the same for most applications as indicated by Shainiac as far as the pressure plate goes. The pressure plate height may be a little different, but for that application I'd have to send an extra bearing adapter of a different thickness just to be sure. Slight bump in cost, but not by much, as it's a small piece.
For hydraulic release bearings, you should always put an adjustable pedal stop, though most people don't.
I like what i see, good job on this!
I saw a thread recently in the 3rd gen section regarding a Japanese company that sells over-sized slave cylinders for on/off feeling clutches. What it essential does is widen the engagement/disengagement window for a smoother transition. Although the OSgiken twin isn't terrible and is supposedly one of the most street-able multi plate clutches, I adapted/modified an over-sized slave for my FC. The difference in feel is incredible and the clutch is much more forgiving. I think this will be a popular upgrade as soon as someone comes up with an affordable alternative to the ones available through japan for both the FD & FC. Obviously I cannot use my externally mounted slave setup with this kit and with that said, my concern is pedal feel with the concentric slave cylinder. Does this type of slave come in different bore diameters?
I saw a thread recently in the 3rd gen section regarding a Japanese company that sells over-sized slave cylinders for on/off feeling clutches. What it essential does is widen the engagement/disengagement window for a smoother transition. Although the OSgiken twin isn't terrible and is supposedly one of the most street-able multi plate clutches, I adapted/modified an over-sized slave for my FC. The difference in feel is incredible and the clutch is much more forgiving. I think this will be a popular upgrade as soon as someone comes up with an affordable alternative to the ones available through japan for both the FD & FC. Obviously I cannot use my externally mounted slave setup with this kit and with that said, my concern is pedal feel with the concentric slave cylinder. Does this type of slave come in different bore diameters?
Hi keithrulz,
Do you have a link to that thread so I can browse?
The bore diameter for the supplied concentric slave cylinder is matched to a 5/8" master cylinder bore- so for most "OE Designed" pressure plate setups, whether stock or high performance, it will feel fairly decent. The current test car fells like any HD single disc pressure plate would, and it also has a slave matched to a 5/8" master. It has a very heavily sprung pressure plate too, and it feels just fine. As far as I know, there is no other bore size for the slave cylinders I am supplying. I say "matched to" because there is no data on the actual bore of the slave, but it does list the bore of the master that it's designed to work with, and it is 5/8".
I've confirmed with Exedy that the bearing contact surface area of their hyper multi series pressure plate fingers is acceptable anywhere between 46-60mm bearing face diameter on the contact surface as well. The supplied bearing is indeed a 60mm, so the pedal might require a bit more effort on their pressure plates, as the motion ratio of the fingers to the slave's piston is a little lower being further out from the center of diaphragm, but it is within their allowed spec.
I would like to stress that If anyone has an issue with setting it up and getting it working, I can work it out with them and figure out a solution. But it will require some back and forth time for anyone seeking custom parts or adapters. I don't have a solution for each and every combo of pressure plate and bearing, but I do have options to try. That's the best I can do at this point.
All things considered and included, at the price this kit is being offered at- you'd be hard pressed to find a kit like this to mount the trans and start the motor, so my advice would be to just try the bearing and see how it is with your setup/clutch kit and make adjustments afterward, or purchase the kit and just don't use the bearing if you'd like to tackle that part on your own with a different concentric slave of your choice. That is always an option.
The best wisdom I can impart is to take the easy route and determine how it would feel before putting everything in the car; just use the most inexpensive 3/16" brake line tube and fabricate a line from your master to the supplied slave hose while the engine is outside the car (just run it under the wheel well and out the side) , and attempt to actuate the pedal with the engine outside the car and see how it feels.
By doing this simple $20 test, you can accomplish 4 things;
- gauge pedal feel and make adjustments to pedal rod/master cylinder and determine if a different setup is required
- look inside the bell housing from the hole cut for the starter to see that everything is ok (with the starter mount removed)
- you can use a small screw-driver/pick tool to actually flick & spin the side of the clutch disc to see if it gets fully disengaged
- see if any of your hydraulic elements are in need of replacement or tightening before putting it in the car.
You can also put oil into and filter onto the engine and turn the starter motor over with a spare battery to make sure everything is good before putting it in the car and make small adjustments if necessary.
This may seem like a "garage mechanic" way of doing something, but it's far better than waiting until the engine has all hoses and fluids, coolant, wiring etc, only to find out that your clutch doesn't work as you like.
Or you can just put it all in the car and do the test there as well if you have mounts built for the trans (which are not part of the kit).
Again, I am willing to assist and solve whatever issues any customer has while fitting the kit, which will most likely evolve as more of them are in the wild and being used on different combinations of setups. As long as they are aware of time constraints of making custom parts, and can communicate their problem in any sort of technical fashion, it can be fixed.
10-10-18, 06:29 PM
