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I would suggest you post the kit price of what it will cost as of right now to start filling orders and get this rolling. (I think this is 2 year old thread which knocks off old potential buyers) if you can offer better pricing later if a bigger demand or supplyier gets in the mix so be it .
Problem is you withhold $ numbers for actually user buying cost is nobody knows the cost ,so there not going to put a deposit on something with out a cost .
I'm not asking for a dime from anyone just yet. I'm asking for those of us who aren't planning on having unexpected newborns tomorrow or buying a house on a whim on Saturday to let me know. I've produced parts before, and every time after committing to a production contract, miraculously everyone falls on hard times. I will not go through that again. I gain nothing from it.
i.e- I'm asking who actually CAN purchase something. If you are aware of what most other transmission swap kits cost nowadays, this should be an easy question to answer. (also: see below)
Originally Posted by Mikesfd
I would suggest you post the kit price of what it will cost as of right now to start filling orders and get this rolling.
Ok lets do an apples to apples comparison.
Colins Adapter Kit for 2-Rotor:
$874 USD with Flywheel Adapter
+ $100ish for T56 Slave Cylinder that grenades itself
+ $79 for Tick Performance Billet Bearing Retainer (to fix T56 slave cylinder problems)
+ 20B Bellhousing (I've seen them go for $500)
+ $50 (approx.) shipping
Total approx. $1603 USD
Currently, I've priced my kit at $1650. I estimated shipping to be another $50, packaging included. so $1700 USD.
... again, I didn't say it was final, but that's what I have right now.
Originally Posted by Mikesfd
(I think this is 2 year old thread which knocks off old potential buyers) if you can offer better pricing later if a bigger demand or supplyier gets in the mix so be it .
2 years is indeed a long time, but the test car is not my personal car, so I don't have access to it all the time, and it had some teething issues last year (unrelated to the swap kit)
Yes, I plan to offer better pricing in the future, but even with $1700 price, it is a considerable amount for me to put money down on producing them.
Ok I have another update coming later this evening. The supplier gave me the wrong pricing for the majority of the material- so they gave me way better pricing on all of that this afternoon and I found a supplier for better pricing on some of the hardware as well. I am going to crunch some numbers and bring this kit down to where I think it's reasonable and report back with some good news in a few hours, hopefully.
How soon do you think you are going to be able to start filling a orders if people( really I) want the kit?
- Machining time for all the parts is 3 weeks from drawing submission.
- Estimated 4-6 weeks to your door from today if this ball starts rolling next week.
- Most of the hardware/components is a fully or partially stocked item with the exception of two fasteners which will arrive well before the machining completion.
Delivery time is dependant on those who can commit. Machining is 100% paid upfront by me, but I am going to see if there's something I can do about that.
It's looking like I got the kit price down to $1500 USD, including shipping within the US.
Will be confirming today on what hardware I can get on acct in a larger quantity to knock some more off the price.
Colins Adapter Kit for 2-Rotor:
$874 USD with Flywheel Adapter
+ $50 (approx.) shipping for adapter alone
+ $100ish for T56 Slave Cylinder that grenades itself
+ $79 for Tick Performance Billet Bearing Retainer (to fix T56 slave cylinder problems) + shipping
+ $89 for T56 Stainless Brake Line + shipping
+ 20B Bellhousing (I've seen them go for $500) + shipping
Total approx. $1800 USD
For the comparison, I forgot to add a clutch line and shipping for the items listed on the Collins kit, which are all additional costs, IF you can even find the bell housing, let alone for $500 (someone said they've been searching for more than a year now?)
All you have to do is buy the driveshaft and the clutch disc if you already have a starter (which you need with the collins kit anyway as well, so those are not included in either price). I believe any aftermarket 240mm SR20 disc will work on the RX7 flywheel that uses a 236mm disc, though I don't have one to check if the hub clears the inside of the pressure plate if you go with one that has larger hub springs. But that's not included in either kit anyways at this price, I'm just mentioning that it might be an option.
$1500 USD Shipped within the US/CANADA is where I am setting the price. Let me know if you're interested in making a downpayment and I can provide more info and answer any questions privately.
I'm presently swamped in other projects, but I may see about joining in later if this is still available.
Does anybody know if the Exedy multi-plates are modular in the same way that the OS Giken clutches are? I have an S13 twin plate I'd like to know if I could put the equivalent 13B flywheel behind. And on top of that, whether that would work for this.
I’m st gridlife and have watched the car with this setup run as well as talked to the guy. Super cool car and setup. Still curious if I can fit it in a FD trans tunnel. I’m interested though, count me in. I don’t know how to help propagate this further other than maybe sharing on Facebook or something. *shrugs*
Well it seems like there is enough interest to just have them start machining at this point, so I will be discussing with them this week on when I can get them going and when the first pieces will arrive. Thanks for your interest and the good words, guys.
Originally Posted by pzr2
I'm presently swamped in other projects, but I may see about joining in later if this is still available.
It should be in stock if it doesn't sell as quickly as anticipated, but If the first run does- then a second run is likely.
Originally Posted by pzr2
Does anybody know if the Exedy multi-plates are modular in the same way that the OS Giken clutches are? I have an S13 twin plate I'd like to know if I could put the equivalent 13B flywheel behind. And on top of that, whether that would work for this.
Both the Silvia and the RX7 discs are 200mm, so I think the only difference are the input shaft diameter and spline count (24T nissan vs. 23T mazda). I believe the discs will interchange within the pressure plate housing as it is modular as you mentioned.
Though this is most likely something that will require a bit of back and forth between you and I, and a few test fits of the transmission to the engine with the provided slave adapter. I might have to make modifications or send you the slave adapter for a different application which is shorter than the RX7 application ones that I've designed.
There is a different version of the same slave cylinder with a smaller bearing that has the same design as the OS Giken bearing, and the same design as the Exedy bearing as well- but I sent it back since it would not work for the common FC pressure plate styles that use the factory Mazda style self centering bearing.
However it looks like that other one might work- so I can repurchase it and make some changes to the mounting plate as the bolt pattern for that is different. Unfortunately, two of the bolts intersect another area of the mounting plate, which prevents the plate from working with both slave cylinder styles- so they will need to have a different plate for each application, though it's something I can experiment with for you.
In other words, I'm willing to get you sorted if you're willing to buy the kit. lol. simple as that.
I'm presently swamped in other projects, but I may see about joining in later if this is still available.
Does anybody know if the Exedy multi-plates are modular in the same way that the OS Giken clutches are? I have an S13 twin plate I'd like to know if I could put the equivalent 13B flywheel behind. And on top of that, whether that would work for this.
So I was looking into this more today and realized that I need to know exactly what flywheel you have to let you know which bearing you can use. They have far too many options, but the builder series is essentially a mix and match modular unit that you can swap parts between if you know all the specs.
If you can give me the part number of your kit, I can delve into this further and tell you exactly which flywheel you need to buy to replace it. I can call exedy for you on monday to verify my findings as well.
I would suspect that you currently have the FM01 flywheel for the Nissan Silvia / SR20 equipped motors.
It seems as though you require an FM10 flywheel for the FC or FD.
You can check out more information on this page here:
But I would like to know what bearing your kit came with as well as what pressure plate cover, or at least discuss some dimensions with you to sort it out before shipping you parts because removing and reinstalling the transmission by yourself sucks, its like trying to move a 200lb person.
We would also have to discuss which flywheel bolts you would be using, as they supply their own with the kit. I am going to presume that you can use whatever I supply, but you will have to shave the heads down, as theirs are low profile and as I am supplying ARP bolts, they do not come in low profile versions.
Thanks for everyone that showed interest and put a downpayment on the kit.
That went pretty quickly, and you all helped move this along!
I have a great update to provide you with:
Rockauto sent me the wrong starter which I was going to use for glamour shots and instructional photos (Not that they're really needed, but I will do my best to provide as much info as possible once all the parts get here).
They sent me an FD Manual starter, which has the same bolt flange as the RX-8 manual starters... And coincidentally is not too far off from the FC turbo manual starter (which is the one I ordered).
In light of this fact, I've managed to slightly modify the last piece that I've not sent to machining yet (starter mount); The newly designed mount will now allow the use of any of those 3 starters. The "short ear" FC turbo manual starter, "long ear" FD manual starter, and "long ear" RX8 manual version as well (all these starters are rear/bell-housing mounted starters, not the side or top mounted rotary starters).
This means the kit should work with little to no issue on RX8's now as well as the original intended RX7 FC and FD based engines, and now you can use RX8 and FC flywheel and clutch kits (any push type will work, FD pull type will not).
You will also not have to buy a different starter if you have any of those 3 versions now, which is a potential $100 savings for those of you that already have one that is compatible.
blessing in disguise.
Parts all on track for estimated manufacturing time.
Thanks for your continued co-operation and patience.
For anyone interested in the kit that hasn't purchased yet- I would like to clarify something.
1) YOU NEED to have an automatic counterweight that is matched to your engine rotating assembly. Please consult your engine builder or post in the boards to find out which one you need.
2) The kit does not work without an aftermarket flywheel. The OEM Mazda manual flywheels cannot be spaced out using the included spacer. This kit nor collins kit will work without an automatic counterweight and aftermarket flywheel. The transmission, clutch splines, bearings, flywheels, and starter simply do not line up well or offer the suitable engagement or proper arrangement without spacing the flywheel. The easiest way to overcome this (short of machining the input shaft) is to space the flywheel.
3) CLARIFYING STARTER COMPATIBILITY:
The following starters will work with their matching flywheel.
FD3S RX-7 MANUAL STARTER (Long Ear) [Same nose as early RX-8] (shown above)
SE3P/JM1FE RX-8 MANUAL STARTER (Long Ear) [Short nose - later RX-8] (shown above)
So if you have a manual FD/RX8 or Manual FC Turbo starter, and matching aftermarket flywheel; you can keep and use them! You just can't use FD PULL TYPE clutches. This kit should work with all FC and RX8 Push style clutch kits.
I made a mistake and said the FC starter was an auto, because my search for manuals showed something else... but I didn't realize the manual turbo was different; and have confirmed this is what we used in the kit.
First off, Careless what a project. I came across this thread by chance, and whatdyaknow, it combines my two cars into one lol (S5 FC and a Z34). Seems like there are great benefits to this, and offer an excellent alternative to the t56 and the like.
I would kindly like to add some extra info for anyone else doing this, hopefully I didn't miss anything in an above post.
This info applies to anyone sourcing a JK trans from a 370z 6 speed, and likely with Syncrorev (auto rev matching). Not sure if Syncrorev makes a difference as that is a module for certain Zs with that option.
Careless may have stated, but be sure to double check if you have the CD or the JK trans and what options it has. Reason being..
I drive a 2010 (built in '10) 40th Anniversary, with 6 speed and Rev match (this would be a JK trans). The transmissions from the 370z, especially early 2010 and older (2009) be careful. These missions have some finicky syncros, especially downshift syncros, and the history and mileage may affect this. This is from stock power Zs to 600hp FI monsters (mine is rather tame with just NA power adders, 98k miles, bought the car with 59k). It is a known problem for many Z owners (my 5th and 3rd is scratchy when cold, 5th has always been scratchy when cold from day 1). High quality MT85 gear oil helps this a lot.
I assume hardcore guys doing this swap also end up overhauling the trans anyways, but for those who don't, food for thought.
Next, I just replaced my CSC (concentric slave cylinder) with a zspeed csc delete kit (pricey, but well worth it). Gives the clutch system an external slave and internal lever with a throw out bearing, similar to our FCs. For those who dont know, the CSC from the Z is notorious for failing (plastic POS) and the only way to fix is to drop the trans.
Careless has stated this, as well as offered an option for the csc replacement. Do NOT pass that up.
I just wanted to pass on some Z knowledge so for you fellow FC owners who go this route, you aren't in for any other surprises that come with swaps like this.
This is NOT to steer you from these missions, they are excellent and stout otherwise. The shifting is quick w/short throw, sharp, and my Z is a blast to drive partly because of this. But, they (Z34 JK missions) do have a few things to look out for (like early model syncros).
I hope this project really takes off, so there ya go!
Thanks for contributing additional information and I would like to add some things as well.
SynrcroRev versions of the trans do not affect the operation of the trans itself in the case of this swap. Though my future shifter relocation product will most likely require the removal of the top cover SyncroRev module. It's 7 bolts and does not have any effect on the operation of the trans in this application. There is a magnet on the strike rod under the module that is used to flip the reed-switches on and off so the ECU knows which gear you are in, but that's not really necessary in this application.
For the time being, if you need to relocate the shifter for your application, I recommend the CD999 kit from SerialNine. It's a nicely made product and I would not hesitate to use it if the need arises.
The biggest contributor to accelerated synchro wear on these transmissions (fork style or internal slave style) is using poor quality oil. If you use a quality lube like MT85 as well as MotulGear 300LS in a transmission that doesn't have synchro issues, it will stay that way for a much longer time.
I must also add that the synchro problem you make light of is directly related to the factory clutch slave cylinders. the problem arises from them starting to fail and not causing proper clutch release, which in turn accelerates the wear of the synchros due to the clutch not being fully released when you are attempted a shift. The CD transmissions before the HR versions which included a fork and external slave were an evolved version of the early CD00x transmissions, and Nissan did fix the synchro issue on those, but the CSC just undid everything Nissan redesigned to fix the issue. I have a JK40C transmission that a client forced the dealer to replace because the OE internal slave started to fail at 13k miles or so, and the dealer just wanted to replace the clutch and slave assembly- but the customer knew better and demanded that they change the transmission due to any potential synchro wear affecting its performance in the future.
The CSC delete kit you have purchased is a good alternative to CSC replacements, but in the case of this swap- it is not applicable, as the mount for the external slave gets in the way of the starter itself. I will post pretty pictures once new starter mounts get in so you can understand better why that is.
In regards to the CSC replacement. CZP offers an internal slave cylinder, but they are made by the same company that makes the T56 style ones (they're actually for a cobalt and some Saab applications), and they have plastic bearing carriers which need to be replaced if they get too hot, as the nylon melts and instead of the bearing spinning, the entire carrier spins. Also, the bearings themselves are not as robust as the version I have selected. Also, they are kinda not the right bearing face for the application. They work... but they don't self center.
The CSC replacement I am including in the kit, with the mount and a shim plate, is a much better quality koyo bearing and is all metal. The bearing itself is also sealed on the front face, so dust ingress from aggressive clutch material will be less likely. It's actually a smaller diameter version of the 350Z clutch bearing, which is part of koyo's "high speed clutch release" bearing class. I think it's a better version of the CZP HD slave cylinder kit, but that kit is also good, but requires additional spacing to operate (and the potential for carrier failure as outlined above). I would not put a CZP kit in my car without first doing the carrier upgrade, no matter what car it's for.
If anyone has questions regarding the transmission or clutch compatibility before or after purchase, do not hesitate to contact me or post here. I will try to answer any questions you may have, and as well- like I've already done for a few that have put down payments- I can call your preferred clutch manufacturer to make sure you order the right clutch parts because I know which questions to ask them in order to assess compatibility, and I would like to document what works and what is available for my own data logging.
I have sent messages to those who put downpayments on the kit requiring some info before I purchase some parts, so please if you have received the last two messages I sent- send me back a message to discuss.
Thank you for your patience. I should have more machined parts and items rolling late next week or after that weekend.
As a former 08 350z HR owner, I can vouch that it is the stock csc that messes up the synchros despite Nissan’s synchro improvements.
Having owned the Zspeed csc, yes it’s good but there’s room for improvement in materials like Careless said.
Also, I believe 370z Synchro-RevMatch is a feature that relies on other things such as ECU/wiring/software and drive by wire throttle. It’s not based in the transmission afaik.
All 370z 6-spd manuals have a gear sensor. Despite Synchro-RevMatch or not. (Sport vs base)
That being said, only sport models have it enabled.
All 370z 6-spd manuals have a gear sensor. Despite Synchro-RevMatch or not. (Sport vs base)
I don't think that's true. I have a 370z JK40C Transmission here, and what's missing from the transmission is both the magnetic collar on the strike rod, and the control box with the reed switches. I have the Nissan FAST catalog on another computer- and as far as I remember- the strike rod itself is a different part number, and has another component that the collar with the little magnet bolts onto.
I was thinking of ordering from Nissan to convert it, and buying a used gear sensor module so I could reverse engineer the signals, but I haven't found the module for a good price or haven't really looked since I started testing the kits and whatnot.
That also means disassembling the whole transmission to make the changes.
SyncroRev-Match definitely requires other car modules and functions to work. The transmissions only has the optional gear position module.
Correct, as Careless stated the SynchroRev feature is handled by the ecu and throttle control. I pointed this out as *usually* there are slight variations mfgs make to accomodate these features. Hence when I stated the "module", as there is definitely a module for it atop the transmission, as well as the gear select collar, verified by Careless.
FWIW Their latest version of the CSC Delete is excellent in quality and materials, but will indeed NOT work with a (rear mounted) FC starter. So I won't talk about it anymore to save any confusion.
08-16-18, 09:02 AM
