Hi,

I am trying to find out a Little about how i can convert a 13b engine to Dry Sump.

I am more intrested in what i need to do to the Engine's Internals, i have been given an option to buy the bolt ons (Pump, Lines and tank) for a good price but i have no idea what i would need to do to make it all work.

Can somone enlighten me, i have read lots of Mails on the Search but they only give Pro's and con's of the System.

Thanks

Chris

 

Mazda sells a dry-sump kit for the 13B.

Brandon
BR7 Racing

 

If there is one thing i've learnt from the last hours Searching is that Pinapple and Mazda do a kit thats $3000.

I dont want to pay $3000 to find out how i reroute the Oil ways.

Chris

 

no **** it actually isn't that difficult i'm in the middle of fabbing one.. and a 6 quart aluminum oil pan with G baffle's for for racing. neither are that difficult. i shoule have the first pan done in a week more to come...

 

I could tell you all about a dry sump system, except for the internal specs. Pineapple built mine for my 20b and unfortunately, I did not pay close attention to the internal mods part of the process. Any other ?'s I would be glad to answer, since I put the rest together, but I won't bs you about what I can't answer knowledgebly.

 

Hello, Hows things, is the 20b coming along?

As you can proberly tell i have scraped the Wet sump idea and am now collecting bits of Dry sump.

I do have a Contact here that can help me with it but as usal i dont want to bug him all the time or he'll soon get board of seeing the sight of me. LOL

Would be nice if somone has done it before and could tell me roughly how to do it?

Chris

 

I'm going to bump this; been trying to figure out how to make my own setup, not buying Mazda's.

From what it seems like to me, it would be possible to have the scavenge stages of the pump sucking from a flat plate oil pan, and the pressure stage feeding right into where the oil pump pickup is... grind some stuff away where the stock oil pump is, and put a plate over it so that oil will flow straight through. The oil cooler would stay at the same place in the oil loop as in the stock engines, and the rest of the oil loop would be the same.

Does that seem like a decent way to do it though? It seems like it would work to *me* but then again, I don't have that great of an understanding of how oil flows through the engine.

 

If only I could post pictures on this forum I could show you how I have done it. PM me your email address and I'll send you some.

Mine is a flat plate with 2 pick-ups off it feeding a 2 stage scavenge pump.

Internally the pressure regulator is bypassed (AKA bolt) and the internal pump removed. I can find out what was done after the pump was removed from my engine builder.

Bill

 

PM sent, thanks in advance.

Hmmm, bypassing the pressure regulator too... actually, I suppose that makes sense.

 

Please post the pictures for us other to see..

 

If you cant, send them to someone willing to host.

I'm considering building my own dry-sump setup, I had the idea of simply running pipes from the oil outlets, and having the scavenge pumps close to the engine. But it all went a bit pear-shaped when it came to doing the high-pressure pump bit. I've got NO idea how to do it!!!

 

I'll try and post something tonight. I'll also contact my engine builder to see what was done to block off the pump.

In the meantime have a peek at http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/ these are the pumps we use over this side of the pond. About $750 for the pump I have in my car.

 

Here goes

 

Here is the engine bay. Didn't come out very well though, need to get back in and take more pics sometime

 

What are the benifits of a dry sump system?

 

Since there is no more oil pan, the engine can be mounted lower in the car, lowering the center of gravity and inturn improving the handling.

Also it gets the eccentric shaft out of the pool of oil, reducing friction and oil drag, meaning more HP out of the given engine setup than otherwise would be with the regular sump.

 

I don't know what kinda problems your engine is facing, but having your e-shaft in a pool of oil would be a bad thing.

Let's remember that the bottom of the rotary engine is sealed. Your e-shaft is well away from the sump.

 

Windage is not a problem in rotaries as you say and I haven't heared of many cases of oil surge being an issue.

In my case it means that top of the block is only 20" off the ground.

 

Whoops! Thanks for the correction on the slip up S2-13BT .

 

do u have to do anything to ur driveshaft to lower the motor? and what about the motor mounts? do u relocate them? if someone who has done this before does a write up with pics or sumtin like scalliwag's write-up's that would be greatly appreciated by the rest of us!

 

Not to put a damper on things, but I don't know that anyone's going to be able to point out a writeup of the various modifications to lower the engine in the chassis thanks to the dry sump system. It's not commonly done at all apparently, and for a second thing I don't know that it's actually that complicated compared to setting up the system.

Just as food for though, I'm willing to bet you could get most of the movement you want to do on a first gen '7 by making a new mount crossbar thingie. Bend it differently to place the engine lower, put the holes in different places, and move the mount on the tail end of the transmission around to match.

 

A write up of my install might not help too much, as if you look at the engine bay you will notice it isn't an RX7

 

this, edited, setup is what I am looking at.

I see no reason to not use the stock oil pump, all I want to do is have it taking a suction off the oil tank instead of the sump.

as a side note, on a rotary in your airplane site I read about a fellow putting a loop of copper tubing in his sump and running radiator water through it, to help stabilise the oil temperature, this might be a good thing to do in the oil tank, to help the oil warm up from a cold start. I dunno, it's a thought

 

The oil will heat up quicker than the water will -if anything, it'll cool it down more during startup (BAAD!!)



But what flow-rates are needed for a 12a? I was thinking about getting a 3-stage pump with the following rates:

# 1 x 6 ltr (1.4 gal) pressure,
# 2 x 10 ltr (2.35 gal) scavenge

Would this be sufficient?

 

I dont have dry sump. how ever I have poor man dry sump. 3QT high pressure accusump. work great. but took too much space..