Casting Al356 rotor housings
11-19-07, 05:40 PM
#51
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ok back to the topic at hand... everyone listen: i dont think he is trying to recreate a mass produced product because he wants to save money.he said that he dosent have the money for a new engine so in the mean time he is going to attempt a very ambitious project with a vaste amount of invaluble free resources. yeah WTF? ontop of that he understands that the most valuble outcome is the knowlege of the manufacturing process.
do you even know what school he goes to? how do you know what his schools facilities are like? have you been to ever ******* university lab in the country? could he not consult an off campus source for more difficult tasks?
hell my school has a engine lab that is currently researching Fiber Coupled Laser Ignition.. yeah a lazer initiating the combution process in large scale stationary engines.. do you seriously think that they cant figure out how to apply a crome plating????? worst case you still have hundreds off people who work on the campus in the engineering field that can point you towards more resources...
here is my tip to oblio. there should be at least one person on your campus that specializes in manufacturing process. go talk to that person, ask to meet with them and take a rotor housing. explain the difficulties in manufacturing the part and ask for their input. hell you never know.. maybe they are a rotor head too!
11-19-07, 05:42 PM
#52
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I have plenty of immagination, but it's also grounded in reality. I know that I'm not going to be able to make things like rotor housings that are anywhere near the quality of the Mazda parts unless I spend a fortune, so I'm not going to bother.
I've got a couple projects in mind to do once I graduate and have some free time. They're going to be to solve known issues in ways I know I can reasonably acheive with limited money and resources which will provide for a favorable cost/benefit ratio.
I've got a couple projects in mind to do once I graduate and have some free time. They're going to be to solve known issues in ways I know I can reasonably acheive with limited money and resources which will provide for a favorable cost/benefit ratio.
11-19-07, 05:53 PM
#53
Rotary Enthusiast
11-21-07, 09:03 PM
#57
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Honestly I think a lot of you are missing an important point, Mazda spent money to develope a CHEAP way to make rotor housings that last a reasonable amount of time. They're not building F1 cars with a billion dollar a year budget and all the latest unobtanium composites, they're trying to make a production car at a price that will sell so they make a lot of trade offs.
When was the last time they made a significant change to rotor housings? 20 years ago? A lot has changed in 20 years and if the OP has all the advancements at his disposal and none of the budget constraints then maybe he'll come up with something better.
RB did it with aluminum side plates, they're better than stock in some ways but the cost difference doesn't make it practical for many people. If the OP comes up with a bullet proof rotor housing but they cost $5000 each he won't sell many but there's still going to be a small market that think it's worth it to have something that will last a million miles.
When was the last time they made a significant change to rotor housings? 20 years ago? A lot has changed in 20 years and if the OP has all the advancements at his disposal and none of the budget constraints then maybe he'll come up with something better.
RB did it with aluminum side plates, they're better than stock in some ways but the cost difference doesn't make it practical for many people. If the OP comes up with a bullet proof rotor housing but they cost $5000 each he won't sell many but there's still going to be a small market that think it's worth it to have something that will last a million miles.
11-21-07, 09:21 PM
#58
Stay tuned...
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I think you are better off in the long run figuring out why you are blowing motors. Even if you do get this process for housings down, if you blow a motor you will probably take out a rotor, then what? It will still be costly.
Put a quality wideband in the car and add water/meth injection for added safety with pump gas. Start building your own motors as well. I would put my energy there...
Just my 2 cents.
Anthony
Put a quality wideband in the car and add water/meth injection for added safety with pump gas. Start building your own motors as well. I would put my energy there...
Just my 2 cents.
Anthony
I wasnt really sure where to post this, but i figured id get more exposure here than elsewhere...
I am a college student with an '87 tII FC. I've blown a couple motors now, and im tired of spending money buying jdm motors...
so im going to try to cast my own housings.
So far i have a huge ingot of T6 a356 aluminum (the same used by mazda for factory rotor housings... and a fairly non-toxic recipie for sand.
My school gives me access to furnaces big enough to melt 50 or so lbs of aluminum at once, which i can then cast in a mold that i prepare based off of one of my old housings. I will have to lose some of the external features (the smooth indentations on the outside of the rotor housings, the oil injection ports, etc...)
I have access to Three six axis liquid cooled CnC machines to mill the rest of the housing out, and smooth the inside of the rotor housing.
Then i plan on coating the inside of the housings with either the factory (TiN, titanium nitride) coating, or perhaps trying to 'use' one of the many patents for DLC (diamond like carbon) or other ceramics which i can apply using the plasma spray gun which i use for my work.
My question is... has anybody ever tried this... or know anybody else who might know anybody who has? I think Rb casts their own housings... does anybody work for them??? I have some concerns with casting it due to my inability to ensure small, equiaxed grain size within the metal (i may be able to anneal or otherwise heat harden the metal after the initial casting) My only other concern is with coating thickness/tolerance for the sliding surface of the rotor housings.
I am a college student with an '87 tII FC. I've blown a couple motors now, and im tired of spending money buying jdm motors...
so im going to try to cast my own housings.
So far i have a huge ingot of T6 a356 aluminum (the same used by mazda for factory rotor housings... and a fairly non-toxic recipie for sand.
My school gives me access to furnaces big enough to melt 50 or so lbs of aluminum at once, which i can then cast in a mold that i prepare based off of one of my old housings. I will have to lose some of the external features (the smooth indentations on the outside of the rotor housings, the oil injection ports, etc...)
I have access to Three six axis liquid cooled CnC machines to mill the rest of the housing out, and smooth the inside of the rotor housing.
Then i plan on coating the inside of the housings with either the factory (TiN, titanium nitride) coating, or perhaps trying to 'use' one of the many patents for DLC (diamond like carbon) or other ceramics which i can apply using the plasma spray gun which i use for my work.
My question is... has anybody ever tried this... or know anybody else who might know anybody who has? I think Rb casts their own housings... does anybody work for them??? I have some concerns with casting it due to my inability to ensure small, equiaxed grain size within the metal (i may be able to anneal or otherwise heat harden the metal after the initial casting) My only other concern is with coating thickness/tolerance for the sliding surface of the rotor housings.
11-21-07, 11:21 PM
#60
Lives on the Forum
IIRC they made updates to the 13B housings with every new iteration at least untill the FD. They worked on making the chrome surface more durable, they moved plugs and things like that. So no, it wasn't a totally stale design that they did once and never looked at again.
There's an apex seal constantly rubbing across the surface, you'll never have a situation with no wear, the most you can hope for is to minimize it, and if you chuck an apex seal unless you're incredibly lucky or are using soft seals then there will be damage as the broken seal chunks are dragged across the housing.
Sure some improvements could be made, like precision machined bolt holes and bolts to act as dowel pins to stiffen it, something for better cooling at the hot spots at the plugs and below, increased wear resistance and things like that, but we're talking about one guy doing this as a side project with university facilities, not some tuner working on it over years with an unlimited budget and unlimited access to resources and knowledge.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that it's not worth it.
There's an apex seal constantly rubbing across the surface, you'll never have a situation with no wear, the most you can hope for is to minimize it, and if you chuck an apex seal unless you're incredibly lucky or are using soft seals then there will be damage as the broken seal chunks are dragged across the housing.
Sure some improvements could be made, like precision machined bolt holes and bolts to act as dowel pins to stiffen it, something for better cooling at the hot spots at the plugs and below, increased wear resistance and things like that, but we're talking about one guy doing this as a side project with university facilities, not some tuner working on it over years with an unlimited budget and unlimited access to resources and knowledge.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that it's not worth it.
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