importboi22

i dunno i just thought your like my age 16-20 im 16 and i've done so much everyone i talk to seems to think that ive been wrenching for over 8-9 years... im kinda like one of those little tech spongies im trying to keep up with your threads cuz they have **** loads of info on them worth learning about.... mazdaspeed7 and you are my idols in the rx7 world... hehehe there are some others like crispeed and twinturbostreetfighter

importboi22

page 5 ownage!

Scalliwag

Haha! Now I'm with ya! I'm 42 but I was like you at your age. Always tinkering and making weird ****. usually illegal paraphanelia then though I had a 12V live bait air pump that plugged into my cigarette lighter with a piece of vinyl tubing that led to a "Legg's panty hose" Egg with brass fittings and a momentary "on" switch.
Riding with me was like being in a "Cheech and Chong" movie! Fortunately I was still a juvenile when the local police caught me with it! The cop finds it and looks at it and pushes the button and smoke starts barreling out! He starts laughing so hard he can hardly talk. The next thing he does is gets all the other cops in the area to come see it before he hauls me and my buddies down to juvenile.
You just be sure to keep all of your focus in the right direction because that is only the funny side of the story there.
Marcus and the others you mention might take offense to being put on the same paragraph as me
Marcus is a skilled multi-facetted machinist and knows how to bring an entire concept from idea to fruition and has access to serious equipment he knows how to use and even program without relying on any outside help.
Now that is the kind of person to envy.
Most of the time my ideas are so weird that my machinists have to tell me what they will have to do to make a machine actually work. Fortunately I usually use a small shop because they all turn the machines off when I come in the door out of morbid curiousity.
Most of the time they show me how to make it easier than I had it drawn. Other times they make things and when they work they cannot believe it.
The surface grinder I am making uses an axle from a 10 bolt GM rear end with the splined end cut and lathed down to hold a tapered bearing and a pulley. The sanding and lapping plates bolt down from the back where the lug bolts used to be. The whole assembly looks like a monster garage drill press and the tapered bearings along with the surface ground plates make it tighter than a gnat's *** for tolerance.
Now the owner of the shop is making one because the foreman told him it would work.
I will probably take pictures of it after I take it all apart for the weld-out and post them.

By the time you get my age you will probably have a list if accomplishments to put me and my goofy **** to shame. I have just enough money, time, and demented reasoning to go after some pretty weird ideas. I at least have the satisfaction in knowing that even a fool gets lucky sometimes so I can only fugg up so much!
I can GUARANTEE you that Marcus and some of these other guys have much more sophisticated accomplishments but along with that they have the common sense not to tell people how they do the voodoo that they doo so well

longwaytofall

This is some great stuff guys. One question though, how are you going to mount the intake manifold to the new port? there is no studs there. keep up the good work!

Scalliwag

They usually use short lengths of hose and hose clamps. I am working with a slip coupling using a thin O-ring in a groove and 4 small set screws to secure it.
Here is a pic of the rubber hose setup using a Webber type downdraft carb setup. There are throttle body setups that work on this as well.

Kenku

*shrug* Hey, y'know, you have to experiment any way you can. I think that's what importboi22 meant; there's so many people around who're just on the order of thinking "Yeah, I'll ship my housings off and get 'em street ported or maybe... *MAYBE* if I'm feeling radical, I'll get my own templates" and then there's people who're trying to figure out how they can do things like PPorts on their own.

Maybe Marcus and Crispeed and the rest have managed more really cool stuff and can do it with better craftsmanship... but here you are telling us *IN DETAIL* how you went and did some really cool ****. And not only that, but at a level of tools and stuff that is within the reach of normal people.

It's all a matter of experimenting; I'm hoping to do some of my own soon and hell, it probably won't even be up to your level of worksmanship. But I'm going to be telling everyone who's interested about it, because in that respect you're a major role model. Not because you figure out cool ideas (which you do) or anything else, but because you share 'em.

... and I'm done with my speech now.

Marcel Burkett

After looking at the pictures in this thread I noticed that when the cut-out is made there is about a 0.5" min of aluminum left in some places and more in others , question is , why do you need to fit the tube in and cut it flush with the inside of the housing ? , why cant th tube be incerted into the "port" hole and a small bit of space left at the end of the tube just where it would meat the steel on the inside of the chamber , maybe about 1/8 of an inch (?) or so , and a bead of welding done on the inside of the tube to to attach it to the "MEATY " aluminum parts that are exposed thereby sealing against water and holding it in place ? . Ofcourse the welding would be smothed out and finished nicely.
The only thing I can think of is damage due to the heat of welding , but the exhaust ports are exposed to quite a bit of "fire" , especially when the sleeves are removed without adverse effects , so what gives ?.

longwaytofall

im kinda new to rotarys, but that pic you showed has no inlets for the side ports. Is that just some special kind of engine, or do you not run side ports if you go to the p ports? thanks

Kenku

Generally no, you don't run side ports if you go with PPorts. Okay, almost always. There's some silly people who're tinkering with the idea of doing both but... that's another matter entirely.

Scalliwag

When the motor is running under normal operating temperatures the entire assembly heats up and cools down together and it has the dowel pins and tension bolts to help avoid warpage. Sometimes a housing will not show any sign of warpage until the tension bolts are loosened and the motor comes apart.
As far as partially inserting the tubes and welding it is more an uneccesary risk than anything.
The tubes being press fit and epoxied is very sufficient. We only weld the outer part of the tube to make us feel good about ourselves in some weird kind of way
The surface tension alone on the pressed tube makes it to where if you have to try to take it out, you are pretty screwed. Not that you could not get it out, but getting it out without tearing something up would be VERY hard.

The epoxy provides more of a coolant sealant than a structural purpose.

Scalliwag

Right, that's usually referred to as a semi-peripheral port. It's fairly popular in Puerto Rico and there are some really fast rotaries over there.
An advantage to that would be the overlap problem. They use a smaller pport and so they have a shorter opening there. You can pull in more fuel but still be able to implement the side housings. There is a lot of opinions on this but some of these guys in Puerto Rico and from there have ran against cars that on paper should have beat them but lost.
So I am real slow to second guess these guys and the more of them I get to know the more I learn.

With what Mazda accomplished with the Renesis I do not think that there are many people out there familiar with it that do not believe that these motors can go alot faster and that the magic of getting all the variables to the point of perfection has yet to happen.
How about side exhaust AND side intake ports to knock the overlap down even more? Custom side plates that are thicker to allow for a better flowing side port? That would require a custom eshaft as well.
There are so many subtle changes in the port work that make incredible differences. How many of you guys wished you could have ground a little higher, a little lower or a little deeper but with the stock design you would be into the water jacket? You guys that have been there know EXACTLY what I am talking about.
Those are ideas that cost a lot of money to try. Definately out of Scalliwag's budget.
Anyone that thinks Mazda's R&D would have already did it if it could be done may want to see how many of the top NHRA guys are running actual Chevy heads and blocks. Let's face it guys, how long has GM had to perfect their engines? They've had all the money and anything they could ever want for R&D.
So why does a guy like Keith Black come along and start selling better, MUCH better, blocks, heads, and damn near every component and having pretty godd success?
Take a look at what one odf his blocks go for on EBAY http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33613

You better believe that a better "mousetrap" is out there and you might even be the guy to build it someday

Kenku

*chuckle* Man, that's *EXACTLY* why I'm going into automotive engineering.

Rotaries are really really incredible from my point of view because there's *SO MUCH* development that can be done. I mean, look at piston engines... how many companies have been pouring *HOW* much money into R&D on 'em for how many years? And still people come up with neat little things here and there.

But rotaries... I just have a lot more hope of finding something really neat through tinkering.

Scalliwag

If I had my way I would be playing with hydrogen rotaries. Get all the friction surfaces coated with the material I'm using for the housing project and needle bearings for the main and rotor bearings.
Hydrogen needs to stay as cool as possible until the point of combustion. So I would spin the motor 90 degrees so that the intake and exhaust pointed upward and direct the point of entry for the coolant to go through the jackets in between the intake and exhaust first. Since you can shield the exhaust only at the external point of exhaust (i.e. shielding the housing from itself would be a challenge and heat rises) turning the motor should have a great effect on intake temperature.
They have had pretty descent success with hydrogen rotaries but it is my guess that this was before they figured out the Renesis design and part of the complaint was the power. Well they got an extra 100 HP from basically the same motor. Where would that put the hydrogen numbers? It may be in an impressive range with all the ducks put in a row.
If you built a hydrogen powered engine with impressive horsepower you would be the talk of the industry.
You go out there Kenku and do us wankel guys proud!

Kenku

Well, why not just direct inject the hydrogen? Gets around a lot of problems... plus, then you can jack the hell out of the compression.

I actually saw an SAE presentation on hydrogen engines... it was actually a bunch of Ford guys. The issue wasn't so much one of power, if I recall, but range. But that's just off the top of my head.

Scalliwag

Here was some reading that I did until I got dizzy and went back to studying thermal spray alloys and data that applied to my current projects. I would like to take the time out to learn more about it though. http://www.monito.com/wankel/hydrogen.html

PPC-Racing

problem with alternative fuels is the mass of the combustable.. 15 gal of gas and 15 gal of hydrogen are very different weights. therefore lower distance travelled per tank. unless you need to use a ratio of hydrogen that is so significantly less that the lower comustable weight is offset by the lower ammount of fuel required.. this was actually a conversation I had at the shop over pizza and diet root beer lunch last week... oddly enough.

Kenku

Well, that's simplifying a bit... stoichiometric air:fuel ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1, by weight, whereas hydrogen works out to around 34.5:1. So you're going to be burning less than half as much weight of fuel per amount of air coming in. And heck, the energy content of hydrogen is a lot higher than gasoline per weight; net energy content of 120 megajoules/kilo as opposed to around 43 megajoules/kilo for gasoline.

The problem is density. In a cubic meter, you get 4.40 kg of gasoline, for a total of 189.2 MJ of energy, whereas for the same volume of hydrogen you only get 10 MJ of energy. So, simply speaking, you need 19 times as much volume of hydrogen to go the same distance at the same power output from the engine. Which is sort of tricky; right now it's sort of doable, but at the expense of a lot of added weight. Probably more honestly, but this is just sticking to simple calculations.

One potential thing that I saw linked off of that page you mentioned Scalliwag was the idea where water was injected; that would burn less hydrogen and use the heat from the burning to convert the water into steam. That might actually be a lot more workable than just burning straight hydrogen... don't know right yet though.

Personally, I don't think we're going to be seeing gasoline going away any time in the near future though.

Scalliwag

I think it will come in the form of a brainstorm like the water injection idea that will get us away from gasoline.
We will not be completely weened from it but in the end we will be less dependent than we are now by a long shot.
It is always hard to foresee things like this. Ten years ago I could not imagine what were are doing right now though. Email? Public access to the internet? Digital cameras? Damn the world changes faster than we realize

fdracer

wtf!!! the pics are of the block covered in trash bags. i'd be the first in line to pay a lot for a quality item, but 3 grand for an item you've only seen in trash bags is crazy.

Scalliwag

It was sold by private auction and the only feedback he has from a private auction was positive.
But I am with you that I better get some better pictures than that. Keith Black parts are so highly sought after that there are some people willing to take the risk.
This actually proves my earlier point even further.

yallgotboost

heres my PPOrt
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp1.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp2.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp3.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp4.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp5.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp6.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp7.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/rt...cating/pp8.jpg

Scalliwag

Cool. What size ID on the tube? It looks bigger than the Padillo pport. It is definately cut higher.

Heath

iTrader: (11)

Where is a good place to source the aluminum piping? At some point in the near future I will be peripheral porting a set of 12a housings at a friends fathers machine shop.....with their help since I'm not familiar with the machinery
It seems the diameter and location are a fairly well kept secret. There is only so much area in which to make the whole. I have spoken with a gentleman who makes a well known racers housings and he did tell me that a 2" (50.8mm) hole is too small for a 13b as far as drag racing is concerned. I'm just gonna have to guess I suppose. From all the pics you can get a real good idea of location. I'd like for someone to help me out but hey, if I wanna do it cheaply myself I suppose it's a gamble.
I'll do my best to get some good pics and post the results when everything is together. It may be a little while though.

Scalliwag

A 2" aluminum pipe is actually 2 1/16" ID. I am not sure who told you 2" is too small for a 13b as far a drag racing is concerned. Ken Scheepers and Jesus Padilla are both running 2" and they are working pretty good seeing that Ken ran a 10.25 for a record for all-motor.
If he is building bigger pports than that I would sure like to know who they are for and what kind of times they are running.
Getting the aluminum pipe is another story. Most distributors in my area require you buy a 20' stick at about $5+ per foot for 2". When you get outside of a pipe size, like 1 1/2", 2", or 2 1/2" referring to ID.
Any non-standard pipe size is considered a tube.
This really gets fun because a 2" ID tube with a 1/4" wall thickness shoots up to about $11.00 per foot and again most places sell 20' sticks minimum.
Find a pipe supply that deals with aluminum in your area to get an idea of what you are looking at locally as far as pricing and availablility. An Alcoa distributor could hook you up on any tube if you are concerned about getting a non pipe size.

yallgotboost

It's 2 1/2 OD sec 40 pipe