ZeroBanger

Do until jimlab.shutsup=true

doevents

loop

'the above code will continue forever, or until the windows operating syswtem runs out of memory.

jimlab

So if comparing the Renesis to the 13B-REW is stupid, what do you call trying to compare the Renesis to an engine that never existed in order to make it look better?

You'd better ask your imaginary friend... I think he drives an FD with an NA 13B-REW...

ZeroBanger

comparing the power output of the 13BREW+twin turbos vs n/a renesis is stupid. take the turbos off and compare the actual engine minus any forced induction. You can say it never existed but the previous 13B (prior the the REW) is more or less the same engine with higher compression and a few minor changes.

nice day.

jimlab

You know, I used to think you had to be told everything two or three times because you were just tuning out everything you didn't agree with. Now I understand that you have to be told everything two or three times because you are paying attention, but you just don't have the intelligence to understand what's being said.

If you want to compare the Renesis to the FC's NA 13B, knock yourself out. 13+ years of technology resulted in more horsepower. Big surprise. If you want to compare the Renesis to the 13B-REW, however, just compare the two engines. Don't make up some ridiculous hypothetical "13B-REW minus turbos" to try to make yourself feel better about the engine in the car you bought.

ZeroBanger

you are missing the point. I am saying the new renesis is a better engine than the 13Brew as it should be. Yes, its 13 years newer I understand that. If you read the ****ing thread title its 13B-REW vs Renesis, so I think I have the right to make that comparision. You are a tool.

HEVNSNT

iTrader: (3)

Where are the automotive engineers?

As Jimlab said, an engine is basically a self driven air pump. The amount of air an engine pumps is directly related to the amount power an engine produces.

Three ways to increase pump volume:
1. Increase displacement
2. Increase RPMs
3. Forced induction

Several ways to increase pump volume indirectly:
4. Intake tuning (velocity, turbulence, mass flow)
5. Exhaust tuning (exhaust scavenging,
6. Porting (size, overlap, timing)

The above items describe air only. There are other factors that affect the power of an engine. Fuel must be delivered as well as spark and this must all be managed by the control system.

Fuel and spark can be added in nearly unlimited proportions, so what determines the maximum amount of air/fuel/spark is the amount of air an engine can flow.

So it comes down to how much air can the renesis flow versus the 13B.

Looking at just the the block:
1. Both are 1.3L
2. 8K REW/9K MSP
3. Pointless comparison
4. This is what you guys should be debating about. Most of the renesis's NA advancements came here. These advancements cannot be applied to a turbo setup. We can discuss this further.
5. No exhaust is best for turbo. Tuned exhaust is best for NA.
6. MSP exhaust and intake ports are significantly larger.


Other factors:
Internal friction?
Intake charge density
Fuel (octane rating)
Inertia (flywheel)

jimlab

I'm not missing the point, I understand exactly what you're saying (and more importantly, why you're saying it), and it's still absolutely pointless and a complete waste of time.

ZeroBanger

its always a waste of time when you are involved in any thread. You dont even own an rx-7.

Steel

I'm with Jim on this one. You cant just take the turbo's off the REW and say it's a fair comparison then. Hell, a lot of cars beat my FC in a race. Just about any V8 outdyno's my n/a 13b. Let's make it fair by pulling 4 of their plugs, to make the displacement more even. Or even better, let's drop a 20b into my car, and race it against a stock mustang and see who wins... not fair? why? according to you, zero, it's perfectly OK to compare a stock (whatever) to a modified (whatever). Why not compare the Renesis to an SRT-4 motor? Should we take the turbo off of that first before we compare it? Or maybe a GTP engine without the supercharger.

Even I can see that you want to skew the evidence to make your preference look better. It's called bias and you have a really strong one. Until you can lose your bias, there's no point in arguing anymore.

ZeroBanger

I have no bias, I own both cars. I have already stated my case. this is not about a neon engine, its comparing two generations of rotary engines. Nevermind.

ZeroBanger

I need to feed my cat.

Evil Aviator

If any of you would like to debate this subject further, please write a nice research paper and submit it to SAE. I promise I will read it if SAE determines that it has at least one small bit of engineering value and decides to publish it. Until then, I think this subject is pretty well beat to death by the peanut gallery. Thread closed.