why are honda owners so cocky??
12-07-06, 10:21 AM
#52
Originally Posted by CasperIV
I think it's kind of like short man syndrome. They have seen fast Hondas, so they think they must be fast too. My friend was the same way with his 97 Prelude. He had his V-Tech chip, exhaust, intake, headers, blah blah blah. My NA 300ZX laid 2 cars on him with very basic mods. After about a year with the Honda he dumped it for a Z and now RX-7's. Right now he is working on getting an FD3 and can admit his Prelude was a turd.
You want to see some pissed off Honda's, watch the guys who lose to my wifes Jetta... they just can't figure out why their H22 is losing to a little 1.8. Of course they know nothing about the fact the car was laying down 150HP in stock trim and around 200HP with just ECU. Also, it helps that they added 100lbs in crappy fiberglass and spoiler to their car, and the spoilers so far out of adjustment it's actually more of a parachute.
With enough money any car can be fast, but I would rather drop 15k into something else. No matter how much money you dump into it, it's still a Honda.
You want to see some pissed off Honda's, watch the guys who lose to my wifes Jetta... they just can't figure out why their H22 is losing to a little 1.8. Of course they know nothing about the fact the car was laying down 150HP in stock trim and around 200HP with just ECU. Also, it helps that they added 100lbs in crappy fiberglass and spoiler to their car, and the spoilers so far out of adjustment it's actually more of a parachute.
With enough money any car can be fast, but I would rather drop 15k into something else. No matter how much money you dump into it, it's still a Honda.
-Kevin
12-08-06, 01:58 AM
#53
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I refer to it as V-Tech because of the Honda badge for the car. That's just how they label it so that's how I refer to it. It's just a cheaper form of the VVTI on my 1.8t or my BMW. The difference being that these engines are designed to use it is a smooth mapped manor rather then a rev switch. The Honda design has 2 main goals 1) it makes a dramatic feeling when it kicks in all at once 2) allows for cheaper production. The VVTI on other cars is used through a nice curve so that you get the most power and fuel economy possible, where as the VTECH on an H22 is designed to make you feel better. There is nothing special about VTECH, most car makers have a variable valve technology in their cars, just they don't advertise it as much....
As for not knowing much about cars, I am interested to know what you are drawing this idea from? The fact that I refer to VTECH as V-Tech (The way honda lists it) or that you have some way of looking in my shop and watching the way I work on my cars.
As for not knowing much about cars, I am interested to know what you are drawing this idea from? The fact that I refer to VTECH as V-Tech (The way honda lists it) or that you have some way of looking in my shop and watching the way I work on my cars.
12-08-06, 11:13 AM
#54
I'm not trying to start a grudge match, but...
Sorry there is no 'H' read;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC
While I agree that many car companies have instituted variable valve timing, Honda was the first to create it on the 91 NSX, and BMW got the technology from them. If "it's only a Honda", why are you using their technology?
VTEC is not just to make you "feel good". That statement is incorrect, if you haven't already read up on it, it is to increase your volumetric efficiency at higher RPMs.
Sorry there is no 'H' read;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC
While I agree that many car companies have instituted variable valve timing, Honda was the first to create it on the 91 NSX, and BMW got the technology from them. If "it's only a Honda", why are you using their technology?
VTEC is not just to make you "feel good". That statement is incorrect, if you haven't already read up on it, it is to increase your volumetric efficiency at higher RPMs.
12-08-06, 11:54 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by CasperIV
I refer to it as V-Tech because of the Honda badge for the car. That's just how they label it so that's how I refer to it. It's just a cheaper form of the VVTI on my 1.8t or my BMW. The difference being that these engines are designed to use it is a smooth mapped manor rather then a rev switch. The Honda design has 2 main goals 1) it makes a dramatic feeling when it kicks in all at once 2) allows for cheaper production. The VVTI on other cars is used through a nice curve so that you get the most power and fuel economy possible, where as the VTECH on an H22 is designed to make you feel better. There is nothing special about VTECH, most car makers have a variable valve technology in their cars, just they don't advertise it as much....
As for not knowing much about cars, I am interested to know what you are drawing this idea from? The fact that I refer to VTECH as V-Tech (The way honda lists it) or that you have some way of looking in my shop and watching the way I work on my cars.
As for not knowing much about cars, I am interested to know what you are drawing this idea from? The fact that I refer to VTECH as V-Tech (The way honda lists it) or that you have some way of looking in my shop and watching the way I work on my cars.
Secondly VTEC was first used as F1 technology on late 80's early 90's F1 honda motors if i recall correctly and then later the first production vehichle to see it was the NSX. The purpose of the system is to keep higher torque numbers at low rpm and open the motor up at the higher rpm with the larger cam lobes. Its just nut put on the cars to create a false sence of power at a high rpm. Have you even seen how the VTEC system works by pulling a valve cover on a car equiped with it?? Im guessing not and if you did you had no idea as to what you were looking at.
Yes your right other car companys have used honda's technology and some have even improved upon it using other names. Some may even do it better controlling how much the valves open throughout the map (like i heard BMW does) and at various TPS's. But they all do it for the same reason. To improve torque numbers and extract larger power from small displacement engines. Now with the I-VTEC honda also controls ingnition timing to improve upon the system.
12-08-06, 12:32 PM
#56
Originally Posted by CarbonR1
I'm not trying to start a grudge match, but...
Sorry there is no 'H' read;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC
While I agree that many car companies have instituted variable valve timing, Honda was the first to create it on the 91 NSX, and BMW got the technology from them. If "it's only a Honda", why are you using their technology?
VTEC is not just to make you "feel good". That statement is incorrect, if you haven't already read up on it, it is to increase your volumetric efficiency at higher RPMs.
Sorry there is no 'H' read;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC
While I agree that many car companies have instituted variable valve timing, Honda was the first to create it on the 91 NSX, and BMW got the technology from them. If "it's only a Honda", why are you using their technology?
VTEC is not just to make you "feel good". That statement is incorrect, if you haven't already read up on it, it is to increase your volumetric efficiency at higher RPMs.
yes it is vtec with no H and yes vtec does help
but the thing is...people who say they feel v-tak...must be smokin some good stuff
all the years ive owned a vtec honda..i guess im in it for the sound
12-08-06, 04:00 PM
#57
Originally Posted by jic
damn you must be a ex honda head or something huh?
yes it is vtec with no H and yes vtec does help
but the thing is...people who say they feel v-tak...must be smokin some good stuff
all the years ive owned a vtec honda..i guess im in it for the sound
yes it is vtec with no H and yes vtec does help
but the thing is...people who say they feel v-tak...must be smokin some good stuff
all the years ive owned a vtec honda..i guess im in it for the sound
Actually I own a turbo 4th gen prelude for my DD, and it was the first car I ever worked on. I've rebuilt the motor, turbocharged, tuned it all with my own hands. I made plenty of mistakes, but I wouldn't be doing what I do today without my turbo prelude. While I love my FD, I try to not look down on other people because of what kind of badge is on their car or how much money they have in the bank. People have their opinions on Honda, as I have my own opinions on Hondas. Hell, I dislike a lot of them but that's besides the point. What gets me worked up is when people act like they know what are saying slamming an entire auto manufacturer, but so obviously don't know what they are claiming. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't know your facts, you should do your homework first before you say that an auto maker is "just a Honda".
-Kevin
12-08-06, 08:00 PM
#58
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Well, first, Honda did not have the first VVT systems. Actually the first systems were European and American, they just didn't work very well and were scraped for a few years. Fiat designed a system that was used more then the American system, but they all needed more advanced computer systems to work well. Then in the 80s they made a little come back in the higher end cars, but mostly for the purpose of helping fuel economy in larger engines. The Germans have been using the systems for a long time, but it wasn't until the 90's that they really found a market for the more expensive systems.
I have owned several Honda's including a 98 Prelude and CRX SI. They were not bad cars, but they are not sports cars. Does this mean Honda sucks? No, they are good at what they are. For some reason Honda owners feel that they need to "prove" that they can turn the cars into a race car. Yes, with enough money even a dodge colt can be fast. Is it worth the money? That's up to the person who is spending the money. Would I waist money building a Honda? No, I can make a faster car for less money with less effort.
The fact is that Honda has only 2 sports cars, the NSX and S2000. Both cars are nice, and I actually put the papers through on buying an S2000 before it broke down and I backed out of the deal. I admit I liked the S2000, but there is a HUGE difference between an S2000 or NSX and any other Honda. It's just a joke when people would ask if I wanted to race my CRX... the car was good MPG, but it I had to deal with one more day of wheel hop I think I would have gone mad.
Honda owners get mad about stereo typing, but they earn it. There are far more ebay exhausts on Honda's then any other car. Honda owners also have the largest demographic of lower income and younger owners. If I see a nice Honda, I will let them know it's nice, but the fact of the matter is that it's VERY rare to find a nice Honda... they are covered in stickers and fiberglass body kits with spoilers that wouldn't help with anything but keeping the trunks closed. It also does not help that on average Honda tuners are cocky and will harass people at stop lights, race like idiots through traffic, and trick themselves into thinking that it was 10k well spent to make a Civic run 13's....
I have owned several Honda's including a 98 Prelude and CRX SI. They were not bad cars, but they are not sports cars. Does this mean Honda sucks? No, they are good at what they are. For some reason Honda owners feel that they need to "prove" that they can turn the cars into a race car. Yes, with enough money even a dodge colt can be fast. Is it worth the money? That's up to the person who is spending the money. Would I waist money building a Honda? No, I can make a faster car for less money with less effort.
The fact is that Honda has only 2 sports cars, the NSX and S2000. Both cars are nice, and I actually put the papers through on buying an S2000 before it broke down and I backed out of the deal. I admit I liked the S2000, but there is a HUGE difference between an S2000 or NSX and any other Honda. It's just a joke when people would ask if I wanted to race my CRX... the car was good MPG, but it I had to deal with one more day of wheel hop I think I would have gone mad.
Honda owners get mad about stereo typing, but they earn it. There are far more ebay exhausts on Honda's then any other car. Honda owners also have the largest demographic of lower income and younger owners. If I see a nice Honda, I will let them know it's nice, but the fact of the matter is that it's VERY rare to find a nice Honda... they are covered in stickers and fiberglass body kits with spoilers that wouldn't help with anything but keeping the trunks closed. It also does not help that on average Honda tuners are cocky and will harass people at stop lights, race like idiots through traffic, and trick themselves into thinking that it was 10k well spent to make a Civic run 13's....
Last edited by CasperIV; 12-08-06 at 08:19 PM.
12-08-06, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BackyardSog
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. First of all there is no "H" in VTEC like the other poster has stated. I have also never heard of a "rev switch". If you are refering to a vtec solenoid then again you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea what honda's goals were and im willing to bet you cant prove the two BS reasons you stated above.
Secondly VTEC was first used as F1 technology on late 80's early 90's F1 honda motors if i recall correctly and then later the first production vehichle to see it was the NSX. The purpose of the system is to keep higher torque numbers at low rpm and open the motor up at the higher rpm with the larger cam lobes. Its just nut put on the cars to create a false sence of power at a high rpm. Have you even seen how the VTEC system works by pulling a valve cover on a car equiped with it?? Im guessing not and if you did you had no idea as to what you were looking at.
Yes your right other car companys have used honda's technology and some have even improved upon it using other names. Some may even do it better controlling how much the valves open throughout the map (like i heard BMW does) and at various TPS's. But they all do it for the same reason. To improve torque numbers and extract larger power from small displacement engines. Now with the I-VTEC honda also controls ingnition timing to improve upon the system.
Secondly VTEC was first used as F1 technology on late 80's early 90's F1 honda motors if i recall correctly and then later the first production vehichle to see it was the NSX. The purpose of the system is to keep higher torque numbers at low rpm and open the motor up at the higher rpm with the larger cam lobes. Its just nut put on the cars to create a false sence of power at a high rpm. Have you even seen how the VTEC system works by pulling a valve cover on a car equiped with it?? Im guessing not and if you did you had no idea as to what you were looking at.
Yes your right other car companys have used honda's technology and some have even improved upon it using other names. Some may even do it better controlling how much the valves open throughout the map (like i heard BMW does) and at various TPS's. But they all do it for the same reason. To improve torque numbers and extract larger power from small displacement engines. Now with the I-VTEC honda also controls ingnition timing to improve upon the system.
The VTEC technology was a good innovation, that honda borrowed from fiat, but it has degenerated into a gimmick. Honda puts VTEC emblems on EX civics even thought it make such a minor difference most people will never even notice it's active. In the case of my Prelude I hated VTEC with a passion. When I was out of VTEC the car was unresponsive, when I hit VTEC all I got was torque steer or wheel hop. Now, I only owned the Prelude for about a month before I traded it to my friend, who continued to bring it back to our shop for additional modifications, but I never really like the car.
I know how the system works, but in my opinion it's nothing special and I personally do not like the Honda system. People who like VTEC have not driven a car like my 5 series BMW or one of the new 1.8t cars.
12-08-06, 10:44 PM
#61
Originally Posted by rynberg
I saw a turboed Prelude on the dyno.....it made less than 140 rwhp and was running so rich that droplets of fuel were hitting me from standing behind the car. The point is - tuning and setup make all the difference.
12-09-06, 02:04 AM
#63
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Not all Honda owners are cocky. I own an EJ8 Civic with a B18C/B16 hybrid engine...it's still not fast, and will never corner, accelerate, brake, sound, look, or feel as good as an FD (which I've also owned in the past). It's good for what it does, though - gets 30mpg, is very reliable, very consistent, and can carry 5 people. Just don't put all Honda owners in the same category. I'd say most of us know the limitations of the cars we drive, and that there will always be douches no matter what the car is.
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