matty

also note jasil.... that i raced my buddy when i had only 335 on stock twins and he was t-78 on low boost making 365rwhp and easily beat him on hwy. we were on the way down to a tuning day so i am very certain of those rwhp numbers.

edit...oh yeah i had a 225lb passenger and he was solo. both guys are on the forum.

matty

jeeze thanks for the friendly comments.
i definately dont think the fd is unbeatable. in fact i generally say the opposiste. but a car that weighs 700 lbs more and only makes 25 more rwhp is going to lose to my car. Perhaps the real issue here is that the evo makes more power than the owner thinks. Any idea what this guy traps?

Also note that your car loses significant rwhp after it peaks where as mine does not. but damn your car makes alot of torque.

Jasil

T-rex, your car put's up power fast, it's a very solid graph. For the record the cars should be very well matched. Matty, the highest stock turbo dyno on a EVO posted is 404awhp. Most EVO's trap in the high teens with that power, so that is in the realm of a 350-375rwhp FD.

matty

i trap 118mph with 360 rwhp. i can do better. i only been once with this new tune and was having trouble launching. i was bogging. with a good launch i bet i can get 119-120mph traps.
So a 404awhp evo traps what i trap if not lower...that means a 385rwhp evo is slower.

T-Rex, have u been to the strip?

Jasil

Matty, that was my point, a 350-375rwhp FD should be right there with him if not faster given equal drivers. The fastest stock turboed EVO went 10.9@124mph with a AEM on race gas.

dubulup

WOW - what is going on just before max torque? and DAMN torque falls off fast with little ball bearing turbo's

if you were redlining during the race...that might be why you lost???

Trexthe3rd

My last trip best time was 11.9. He told me he was doing 12.2-12.4 when he hade 280 whp (I have never heard of a FD doing 12.2 with only 280 whp on street tires, have you?).
I do like to point out 2 things here:
1. As Jasil pointed out earlier the weight advantage is actually ~400 or less, not 700.
2. Trap speed means nothing unless you are going to keep racing to top speed. ET dictates who gets across the finish line. From experience, I have seen guys in FDs (experienced drivers) that have slightly higher hp than Corvettes lose the race and for the FDs with significant hp margin it takes the entire length of the race to catch up. I personally have compared time slips with friends at the track after each run, I consistantly have higher trap (~121-124 vs their 110-115) than the v8s but lost the race because they have lower ETs. Just as someone pointed out earlier in the post, brake boosting would help in this situation but still unlikely to overcome a car with 100 ft-lbs advantage (especially when we where jumping around the rpm of his peak torque).
A note of interest though, because we started aroun 50 mph. I dropped to 2nd doing 6.5K-7K (notice where I am at on my dyno), while he was in 3rd doing 4.2K-4.5K (notice the EVO dyno). So his torque advantage allowed him to accelerate at the same rate as (or slightly faster than) me in a higher gear. That means given the same start he will have higher velocity at any given point in time during the race, plus the fact that I had to shift twice where as only one is needed for the EVO, that is how I lost the race.

Trexthe3rd

That's exactly what I was trying to point out in my last post.

Next engine will be ported, that should help even out my power curve, but my torque curve may take a hit.

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

I agree.. I am putting down 365 on the stock twins w/ ported motor.. My dyno graph is smooth and making over 340 from 3500 to 7000 when he pulled out. Third gear only run I might add.. It feels like my car makes that power(probably more) to 8000..When I shift.. I have beaten every car I have raced from a roll (2nd or 3rd gear) making up to 450 rwhp. This is excluding a few low 400 hp fd's. I am talking evo 8, supra, and heavier v8's . I think your car is not getting its full potential.. The graph looks choppy.. Hope this helps. Even if you are granny shifting you should have won.. I do not brake boost either..

matty

actually thats wrong. Trap speed means everything when hwy racing. Et only tells you how good the driver is and how good he can launh where as trap tells you more about the car's horsepower to weight ratio.
If you race a guy on the hwy (second gear roll) that traps 10 mph less than you but runs 11.2 to your 11.9 you will murder him by several cars.

matty

i think a fd with 280 rwhp can run a low 12 second time if its set up for drag racing with slicks, etc...

i ran 12.7 w/ 294 rwhp with a 2.0 sixty foot time. Add slicks and a 1.6-1.70 sixty foot time and thats a low 12 second pass if not 12 flat.

matty

thats what we are all sayiong to you. So we agree! do you take back your rude comments now?

not sure if the porting is to blame for your cars lack of top end grunt. As i said my power remains dead flat to 8k rpms. Do u have a mp? who tuned the car?

Trexthe3rd

Please read through the entire post.

I have beaten plenty of Cobras with 400 whp, 400 whp 350Zs, Z06s, Supras even some bikes. I have had my share of wins.

Not trying to be rude, but I do find a large percentage of people on this forum who paper races live in a self delusional world (not specifically pointing at you); where a 12 year old car will continue to run circles around brand new high performance cars.

When a race is lost, it is lost. There is no need to continuousely digging for excuses, must be something wrong with the car, it's the driver etc. This is the kind of mentality that starts the pissing contest everytime, it is also why people post topics like "why are 7 owners so cocky". I've lost this time, I don't like it but I'm big enough to admitted it. I'll check my car over, verify and optimize my setup to make sure it's running at the peak and enjoy my ride.

matty

its apples to oranges. Not important anyways....we are talking about hwy racing not 1/4 mile racing.

matty

but then why post a kill if you dont want people to discuss it? right? Call it bench racing or whatever you want - but to me its a discussion.

FCman

Wrong, the highest stock turbo power is 436awhp

Jasil

Who's car is that? Doest the 1/4 mile time reflect the hp on the dyno? The highest trapping stock turboed EVO ran 124mph, so if it wasn't Curt's who's was it? Unless, it was a recent dyno using a 05' wheel aka. 10.5cm hotside?

The majority of people maxing out the stock turbo pre 05' are seeing 28-30 psi as a spike and then tapering down to 19-20 at redline.

artguy

an FD with 400-415 rwhp and a good driver can pull those times and speeds in the quarter. ...on pump gas.

I would have thought the race to be a bit closer....but oh well...cant say i never lost in my fd either...though I did kick plenty of asses.

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

My thoughts exactly.. Yes I have won some races. I do know where I stand though. I have raced many cars that have whooped me. Its all in fun either way. Someone that races to make them feel better than the next guy or car owner is just a shovanistic punk anyway. Race.. Give the thumbs up. Enjoy and respect all types of performance cars..Just a thought. Garret

Red Star

my bad if i didnt see it but what boost were you on? Nice kill BTW

Trexthe3rd

I was running at 18-20 psi, the EVO was 26-29.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Matty, what are you considering the whole power band? Just from 6000 to 8000?

Just curious.

Also G, I'd have to see it to believe it since I don't know if any stock ported, stock turbos make 340 rwhp at 3500 since that's before transition and the primary turbo isn't capable of making that kind of hp on it's own. Even if it's non-seq, I doubt it still but if you have a dyno sheet I would like to see it.

Mike, what was the hiccup on the 380ish run? The 360ish run was nice and smooth with no dramatic dip. Although the peak number was 344 ft/lbs, I'd say it's more in the high 330 range since the 344 was due to a spike. Not that that's a big difference, just throwing it out there.

Tim

Icemastr

iTrader: (2)

You would have to be making 510 torque at 3500RPM to get 340 hp.

Jasil

This is Goodfellas dyno from July. https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...mentid=121310y. From 5400-7200rpms the power ranges from 320rwhp-420rwhp.

Here is the a similiar EVO dyno to the one that was raced stock turbo too.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/attachm...chmentid=71813

The EVO from 4500-7500rpms is at 340rwhp-387rwhp.

You can come to your own verdict as to powerbands etc.

Tim Benton

iTrader: (1)

Rich's car is at 260ish rwhp at 5K, and he's got stage 3 BNR turbos running sequentially. Jasil got a point with area under the curve but looking at the area used during the race. I don't know what RPM range the evo falls to when shifting, but the 7 with a lighter flywheel will be in the 5600 to 8K range during the race. So Mike's car will be from 350 to 330 rwhp during the race. The EVO will be from 375 to 340 at redline, going from 5000 to 7300K or what ever redline, based on the dyno graph Jasil attached which would be similar to the car Mike raced. Plus the extra torque Mike's already mentioned.

Tim