Valkyrie

95% of drivers don't even know what heel and toe is...

Although, I don't downshift without doing it...

Most drivers only go into a lower when they come to a stop, or need to pass someone...

mazda6guy

iTrader: (1)

I wish I could find my old issue of Sport Compact Car mag with this article in it. They had a great write up on this subject.

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

I use heel-toe when i am on track, and sometimes in auto-x when the track has a long straight that require me to go to 3rd (I would need to do that move often when i switch to 4.44 gear, and I never drove any layout that require me to downshift to 1st). It is true that heel-toe does not prevent you from trail braking, i do this when i go on the racetrack, but in the street you rarely need to do this, I just rev match (a regular rev-match downshift for me would be clutch pedal in --> rev to the right rpm for the lower gear --> clutch pedal out).

davemo

the problem with holding the clutch in throughout the downshift and rev match is the transmission input shaft is not sped up when you do this. it removes you from "feeling" the perfect rev match with the gear shifter. Do your throttle blip in neutral with the clutch out, see if you can tell the difference. i guess that is not a big deal for the street, but i'd rather just do it the best way all the time.

sc0rp7

iTrader: (3)

Sounds more like you just want the feel... I heel-toe or at least rev match on basically every down shift and I have double clutched on every upshift before... but the fact is, its not required and as long as you are jamming gears or anything, it dosnt "hurt" the transmission. If you just want to try and attain the "perfect" smooth driving cycle, then youare going about it the right way. However, you are just overworking yourself when driving normally... If it makes you feel better about your driving, then go for it.

- Chris

Kentetsu

Heel and toe is used to downshift while you are braking at the same time. I doubt the average driver has ever been hard into a corner with the need to downshift. Also, heel/toe goes hand in hand with trail braking.

Without heel/toe, if you tried to downshift while in a corner, when you let the clutch out the rear end would drag until the revs came up. Chances are this would induce a spin, which is highly entertaining to witness...

Bptznumba1playa06@sbcglobal.ne

Yea rev matching is an all the time thing but heel toe shifting whats the point if your just like driving to work or the store definetly not nescesary i mean unless ur drifting around on public roads with traffic and police around during the day like its normal.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

The average driver doesn't do it, because the average driver isn't at the limits of adhesion (thus requiring a perfect match of revs so as not to exceed traction), and has synchronizers in his tranny (eliminating most all of the driveline shock from a less than perfect rev match), and isn't looking to save fractions of a second (thus necessitating a downshift or two while braking).

davemo

it is in invaluable technique that could save you from an accident

rotorette

I believe that last statitisics I read was that only 15% of americans own a car with a manual transmission, so with that sad news, I guess the avg american would really have no interest in bothering with heel- toe

BLKTOPTRVL

Another person impervious to other thoughts. YOU belong in the DoO!

davemo

if you drive a manual, why would you complain about learning how to drive it correctly?

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

There used to be a very nice heel-and-toe tutorial at www.turnfast.com

Note that many cars' pedals just plain suck and make it very difficult to heel-toe. It's also a lot tougher when you're wearing shoes with heavy soles. Have you ever tried to heel-toe shift wearing dress shoes? Not fun...

-s-

SLOASFK

iTrader: (5)

Because the average 5 speed driver drives a manual for economical reasons. Most manuals sold are bare bones low end economy cars, not sports cars.

2wheelsmoker

As posted above, heel-toeing is basically double-clutch down-shifting while braking. Hence having your foot on the brake and gas at the same time...

Average people don't rev-match (I think this is a more accurate description of what you're asking) because matching revs at different rpm ranges while down-shifting is not necessary.

Now matching revs for down-shifting while braking... try explaining that to someone who buys a car only to go to work and the grocery store.

Btw, on a motorcycle you don't need to rev match. You can ease the clutch lever and "slip" the clutch which is what the average Joe car driver does.

87FCTurboII

iTrader: (2)

I usually heel-toe when I come to a stop light. Instead of just pushing in the clutch when I'm slowing down and braking till I come to a stop, I downshift to help slow me down while braking. And because I'm braking I have to heel-toe to rev match.

phoenix7

the avg. driver isn't a street racer?

davemo

i am asking "WHY DOESN'T THE AVERAGE 5 SPEED DRIVER HEEL TOE?"

My answer is that they simply don't know of the technique or if they do they are tentative to attempt it. This I assume because i have tried to teach my friends and they are loathe to employ it in their daily driving. I felt that I mastered the technique during my first year on a stick shift, simply because I refused to down shift without rev matching after I learned it. Heel toe then came very naturally, maybe because my Subaru legacy's pedals were positioned well, or because I have big feet haha. I figured since it came so easily to me and I had totally mastered it after barely a year, anyone, especially somebody with more hours behind the clutch, could learn it easily as well.

Since I learned heel toe, I have indubitably become a faster, safer driver and gained understanding of the workings of my automobile. If using heel toe made my stock legacy with 150k miles a blast to drive, imagine what i thought of my rx7 the first time i downshifted to 2nd at 5grand and got on the throttle out of a corner!

phoenix7

the avg. driver gets in their car, turns it on, putts around town as the speed limit/below speed limit, takes turns really slow, gets to work turns it off and forgets about the car until they have to go home.

It's rare to find an avg. joe schmoe blasting around town unless they are angry/road rage or in an emergency. You, I and the other people that drive our cars hard aren't the avg. driver because we go to the track and practice driving techniques to improve out times and we are able to see how it applies to everyday driving and therefore gives us better control of our cars.

so the avg. driver isn't a street racer that carves the road as if were a racetrack.

dial8

iTrader: (4)

Not really. There is a difference in engine in engine braking into a corner and engine braking to a stop. Slowing to a stop sign sign in 2nd is different than in 3rd, but heel toe is a means to down shift.

But why doesn't the average person do it? I think Phoenix said it best, but I will give you an example. Last night I went out to dinner with family. My god father and mother rode with me, there kids went with my parents. Making a loop to get on the freeway I heeled into second and accelerated so I could merge at the same speed traffic was flowing. After getting on the freeway my god father asked me what my feet were doing under the steering wheel. I tried to explain, but he rolled his eyes and gave me look that said,"Right, and when do actually NEED to do that."

phoenix7

yuppers. the avg. driver slows down,finds a gap, gets behind traffic and slowly speeds up.

davemo

here's one that happened to me and heel toe saved my car. making a left at an intersection in my town. im braking and turning in 2nd gear. as i am making my left, a guy on the right of the road in a Fuso mitsubishi truck tries to get out of his parallel park buy cranking his wheel so basically he start to swing the nose of his truck out into my lane. there are cars in the other lane, i can't swerve, i couldn't stop in time. things are looking bad. so i heel toe to 1st as i brake and nail it and shoot through the gap. bingo heel toe saved my rx7.

alternatively, how about ANY situation where you suddenly need to speed up after you were braking? lets say you are braking while changing lanes and you realize you are now about to be rear ended? heel toe!

phoenix7

if you're driving in the correct gear at all time there is no need to heel-toe out of a JAM. If it's a 25mph zone then drive in second gear at ~3500/3600RPMS. If it's a 40mph then be in third gear and so on until you're cruising on the freeway. If you're at low RPMS on the freeway then you should be attentive enough to look ahead and be ready to downshift in case you NEED TO.

Sounds to me like you need to drive in the right gear and be less concerned about heel-toe'ing everywhere you go.

FURTHERMORE you should never be BRAKING while changing lanes to PASS SOMEBODY. If you need to brake to pass somebody and you're about to be rear ended then you are not driving properly. You should find your gap, accelerate and continue to accelerate so YOU don't create problems for the drivers behind you.


You need to learn to drive AND THEN learn racing techniques. Racing techniques in the hands of amateurs causes accidents and you just proved this. Go take some good driving lessons from someone that knows what they're doing.

oakback

My size 13 is too large for heel-toe (and my thigh runs into the steering wheel if I try twisting my leg that way), but I do the half foot-half foot method. With some simple pedal height adjustments, works great.

davemo

in my defense i didn't say braking while passing, i said braking while changing lanes

and that situation i described is definitely hard to visualize but seriously without heel toe i was mincemeat