Left Foot Braking
01-02-08, 11:40 AM
#26
Roen, roger that. If your brakes are good enough (can consistently put the tires at the limit of adhesion without fading) there's no need to engine brake. But that's beside the point. You can still row through the gears with my posted method if you so desire. Immediately when you get off the gas, push the stick through neutral to the next gear. You won't need any pedal to disengage the clutch. And if you're really good at rev matching, you won't need any pedal to engage it either. Done perfectly, this will not damage the synchros. Done perfectly, you won't need synchros. But if you do mess up, it could be bad. Which is why you practice in a beater first.
With a synchro'd tranny, even if you are off by 1 rpm, you'll start wearing the synchro's more than normal. I don't think any of us are that good that we can get 0 rpm difference perfect rev matches every single shift. Though, 100 rpm differences will still allow for a somewhat smooth shift. I think I'm decent enough that I can get it within 100-150 rpms consistently.
Regarding the engine braking, you save a considerable amount of distance on a track engine braking, even if you are fully on the brakes for the maximum time. On throttle-to-brake initiation, engine braking cuts a good deal of distance off. Putting the shifter into neutral during the transition (I still think it needs to be done before the transition off throttle, based on my car with good synchros) will add that much more distance while braking.
I think I had a thread on clutchless up and downshifting here before............
01-18-08, 01:11 AM
#27
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Regarding the engine braking, you save a considerable amount of distance on a track engine braking, even if you are fully on the brakes for the maximum time. On throttle-to-brake initiation, engine braking cuts a good deal of distance off. Putting the shifter into neutral during the transition (I still think it needs to be done before the transition off throttle, based on my car with good synchros) will add that much more distance while braking.
Long story short, you'll slide, and you'll be slow.
If your brakes (and driver) are sufficient, you won't need to engine brake to decelerate at the maximum possible rate. Which means you can disengage the clutch without worrying about being slow.
Like you said, clutchless shifting is difficult. But it's not impossible. It's just one more way to left foot brake in a 3-pedal car.
However, there is another way. This method would probably work for those who want to practice left foot braking in cars they actually care about. I also use this technique sometimes in my street car, but it can be difficult. You need good feet, and it also largely depends on how your pedals are set up.
When coming to a corner that requires downshifting, heel and toe in the traditional manner, but use your right foot to press on only half of the brake pedal (I usually use the top-right half, sometimes bottom right, depending on the lunar calendar). After you successfully shift gears, move your left foot over to the brake pedal in the space that your right one left open. Then you can move your right foot over to full gas duty for mid-corner. If you need to shift again, simply reverse the foot-changing process and repeat. Careful not to let your feet slip!
I know that some of the methods that I suggest, most people would call impractical. But they're possible. And they're fun to practice!
01-18-08, 09:18 AM
#28
I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but if one is truly keeping the tires on the limit of adhesion during deceleration by applying the brakes alone (threshold braking, right?), the additional torque applied to the wheels by engine braking on top of that will only serve to apply a force to the tire-road interface that will attempt to push your tires outside of their g-g circle. At that point, the tires' friction coefficient will shift from the static value to the kinetic value (which is lower).
Long story short, you'll slide, and you'll be slow.
If your brakes (and driver) are sufficient, you won't need to engine brake to decelerate at the maximum possible rate. Which means you can disengage the clutch without worrying about being slow.
Like you said, clutchless shifting is difficult. But it's not impossible. It's just one more way to left foot brake in a 3-pedal car.
However, there is another way. This method would probably work for those who want to practice left foot braking in cars they actually care about. I also use this technique sometimes in my street car, but it can be difficult. You need good feet, and it also largely depends on how your pedals are set up.
When coming to a corner that requires downshifting, heel and toe in the traditional manner, but use your right foot to press on only half of the brake pedal (I usually use the top-right half, sometimes bottom right, depending on the lunar calendar). After you successfully shift gears, move your left foot over to the brake pedal in the space that your right one left open. Then you can move your right foot over to full gas duty for mid-corner. If you need to shift again, simply reverse the foot-changing process and repeat. Careful not to let your feet slip!
I know that some of the methods that I suggest, most people would call impractical. But they're possible. And they're fun to practice!
Long story short, you'll slide, and you'll be slow.
If your brakes (and driver) are sufficient, you won't need to engine brake to decelerate at the maximum possible rate. Which means you can disengage the clutch without worrying about being slow.
Like you said, clutchless shifting is difficult. But it's not impossible. It's just one more way to left foot brake in a 3-pedal car.
However, there is another way. This method would probably work for those who want to practice left foot braking in cars they actually care about. I also use this technique sometimes in my street car, but it can be difficult. You need good feet, and it also largely depends on how your pedals are set up.
When coming to a corner that requires downshifting, heel and toe in the traditional manner, but use your right foot to press on only half of the brake pedal (I usually use the top-right half, sometimes bottom right, depending on the lunar calendar). After you successfully shift gears, move your left foot over to the brake pedal in the space that your right one left open. Then you can move your right foot over to full gas duty for mid-corner. If you need to shift again, simply reverse the foot-changing process and repeat. Careful not to let your feet slip!
I know that some of the methods that I suggest, most people would call impractical. But they're possible. And they're fun to practice!
Especially with clutchless heel-toe, you have to pull the gear shift out of gear while you're still partially on the gas, otherwise, it will be a hard shift and you run a much higher risk of damaging your transmission. Now, because you are pulling out the gear shift before you get on the brakes, you lose that tenth of a second engine braking. It's pretty minute, but from gas-brake transition, you won't immediately be at threshold (it's impossible, since your foot is just coming onto the brake), and since the gear shift is in neutral at that point, you miss the benefits on engine braking under braking, until you get to the threshold.
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