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What will it take (wheelie)

Old 12-17-04, 07:23 AM
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What will it take (wheelie)

So, what does it take to make the front end of an FB lift off the ground? My friend is making this his goal. All he wants to do is have enough power to make the tires leave the ground (even if only by an inch). Discuss
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Old 12-17-04, 08:27 AM
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It doesn't take power so much as it does traction. Doesn't matter how much power you have if the rear tires can't put it to the ground you get no wheelie
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Old 12-17-04, 08:27 AM
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lots of torque
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Old 12-17-04, 09:31 AM
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LOL there was a guy in High School in an old chevelle that pulled his shocks so that he could lift the front end from a roll. He'd get it bouncing by blipping the throttle and then punch it... It'd lift about a foot or so.

Torque and lots of traction. Getting the front end as light as possible couldn't hurt
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Old 12-17-04, 11:20 AM
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You can also move the engine back a fraction of an inch to improve weight distribution.
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Old 12-18-04, 07:00 AM
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OK I guess I should have explained more. What components would be able to handle this frequently? Which dif? He was thinking maybe a locker or something simialar. Also he was thinking about a slight tub. What kinds of mods needed on a 12A? I told him best bet was SC and even nitrous. He would maybe have to spray off the line. What carb? What kind of tranny could handle that big grunt right off the get-go?
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Old 12-18-04, 12:37 PM
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The best reasonable rotary swap he could do would be a 13BT and trans with a Ford 9" and some drag slicks.

A car that does a wheelie without no front shocks or motor set back is generally REALLY fast.

A V8 is a good way to go also.
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Old 12-18-04, 03:22 PM
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i think when im done with my car i may be able to..im not sure..it has alot of torque stock..start modding the motor and...i may need a rear end..
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Old 12-19-04, 02:34 AM
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hydraulics
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Old 12-19-04, 08:42 PM
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A heavy flywheel will help - it can store up a lot of energy
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Old 12-20-04, 12:04 AM
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Cool, so keeping the stock one will be better than say a lightened steel one?
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Old 12-20-04, 08:11 AM
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It will help provide that initial burst of energy required to lift the front wheels.

Once you get past that first launch, then too heavy of a flywheel will hinder the car from accelerating.

If his one goal is a wheelie, then a heavier flywheel will help him make that goal better than a light flywheel will.
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Old 12-20-04, 11:07 AM
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Cool, thanks. He is wanting a drag car. Doesnt care about handling at all really. He is more about straight line. I am more about all around performance.
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Old 12-20-04, 01:39 PM
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The cheapest and probably the fastest way would be with a V8 and NOS. Put an '87-93 8.8" Mustang rear end out back. With upgraded axles and either an Eaton LSD or a spool they are very strong.

Simply transfer the mounting brackets from the FB rear end onto the 8.8" housing. You would need different offset rims now.

Racing isn't cheap... and your friend should expect to put in a decent amount of $$$ to build a car that can pop wheelies. Weight is the enemy. Gut the car.

-GNX7
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Old 12-20-04, 01:52 PM
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It is noteworthy that Drag cars try everything to prevent wheelies, as the bottom of the car(a big rectangle) perpendicular to the track is not particularly aerodynamic
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Old 12-20-04, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by gnx7
The cheapest and probably the fastest way would be with a V8 and NOS. Put an '87-93 8.8" Mustang rear end out back. With upgraded axles and either an Eaton LSD or a spool they are very strong.

Simply transfer the mounting brackets from the FB rear end onto the 8.8" housing. You would need different offset rims now.

Racing isn't cheap... and your friend should expect to put in a decent amount of $$$ to build a car that can pop wheelies. Weight is the enemy. Gut the car.

-GNX7
You have to be shitting me cheapest yeah right! Build a streetport 12A with hardened gears from Racing Beat, run a holley 600cfm carb, gut the whole car out make it as light as possible, and shoot 100shot of nitrous through it. You'll be wheelie popping all you want. The rear end depending on the year and the gears you got you can simply weld the rearend it will hold up for a little bit but you will break it. Or you can use a nissan 200sx rearend with the 3rd member from a early datsun pickup 4.37 gearing weld it up and it can take some abuse. Slicks and your good to go I'd also change the transmission and use a turboII trans. Yes you can adapt a turboII trans to a 12A without swithching flywheels. Talk about cheap that's about as cheap as you can get without spending high dollars. And depending on your tuning abilities you can make that engine last for repeated runs.
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Old 12-20-04, 05:43 PM
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YES, this is what I was wanting to hear. Thank you very much 13btnos. Also thanks everyone else for your ideas. he is thinking about doing a dana 60 and doesnt want a spool. He grew up around musclecars that could pull the wheelies (non street tires obviously) and so this is what he wants. Something that is just fast. Car is already gutted. He is ging to strip out the dash and make some sort of plate to hold the gauges in. He is also going to put a fuel cell in (probably 10 gallon). I will tell him about the 200SX rear. Dont you mean 240SX though? I thought the 200SX was front wheel drive. At least the new ones are. Not too familiar with nissans though.
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Old 12-21-04, 10:13 AM
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Nope the late 70's and early 80's up to 1981 I think are rear wheel drive with disc brakes and you have to use the third member from a 70-73 Datsun pickup it drops in and the axle splines are the same. The stock gears in the 200sx are highway gears they suck. Or you can use the rearend out of a 70-73 datsun pickup if it's a 1300cc it will probably have 4.88 gears but they are weak and 1600cc are usally 4.37 and ring and pinions are bigger but you need to get the wheel stud pattern redrilled to fit whatever wheels your running stock they are 6 bolt pattern. Also an early ford courier pickup 70's also are better some come 4.62. Personnally I wouldn't go with the Dana 60 very good rearend but also very heavy that's a lot of rotational mass in the driveline. If your trying to go cheap but reliable you have to use the right parts don't go cheap where it counts. Remember drag racing is all about power to weight doesn't matter what you drive whether it be V8, 6 cylinder, 4 cylinder or rotary the clock doesn't lie 10second pass in a V8 is just as impressive as a 10second pass in a rotary. I'm a rotary guy but I love all sorts of cars.
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Old 12-21-04, 04:08 PM
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Very good info. I will let him know what you are saying. Sounds like its time to search through some junkyards and see what we find. Thanks again.
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Old 12-21-04, 05:07 PM
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Torque+Traction=wheelie
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Old 12-23-04, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BDoty311
Torque+Traction=wheelie
With a rotary it's not about torque. You don't shift or launch a car at peak torque. If you've ever looked at dyno sheet peak torque occurs at around 5220rpms sometimes a little higher and sometimes a little lower but most often than not around that rpm. You will always hit peak torque before you hit peak HP that's just how motors work. On a rotary which is a small displacement motor your not gonna get a whole bunch of torque. Me in my car on slicks I launch the line at 10,000rpms torque has no play in my equation it's all about horsepower and keeping it in it's powerband. Torque plays a major roll when your talking about weight being moved my car weighs less than 2000lbs with me in it so weight is not an issue for me.
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Old 12-23-04, 12:50 PM
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man this is a question i would expect to see in a motorcycle forum.. lol funny.

car wheelies are awesome, too bad when the frontend comes down the car wobbles like mad..

well, as seen in nopi drag racing footage at least
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Old 12-23-04, 02:11 PM
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Let's see, if you look at some real rough estimates:

1400 lbs on the front wheels
8 ft wheelbase = 11200 lbs of torque at the rear wheels
5:1 differential = 2240 lbs of torque at the driveshaft
4:1 first gear = 560 lbs of torque at the flywheel

You'll need traction for about 560 lbs of torque to get the front wheels off the ground (or substitute your own weights and ratios).
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Old 12-23-04, 04:42 PM
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with wheelies you also lose all control..better pray you have damn good aim.

Last edited by razorback; 12-23-04 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 12-23-04, 11:00 PM
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Around 300whp, 2100lbs, he launches at 10,500 RPM, and side-steps the clutch.


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