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What is the "perfect" setup for a 1st gen?

Old 04-29-03, 11:18 AM
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What is the "perfect" setup for a 1st gen?

My car will be an autox only (with a few trips to the road tracks aswell) car.

What is the perfect spring rate for an autox 1st gen GS (probably going to swap teh rear end w/ a GSL)?

What is the perfect shock? Granny isn't going on any cross country trips in this car.

What is the perfect sway bar?

What are the perfect bushings?

You guys get the idea from here. 90% of the time the car will be on autox courses and 10% on road course so I'd rather be closer to an autox setup than a track setup.
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Old 04-29-03, 11:25 AM
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you want the best? then there's only one choice....

Go talk to Jim and the guys at G-force...
http://www.gforceengineering.net/
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Old 04-29-03, 04:43 PM
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Better than koni, I take it?
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Old 04-29-03, 04:56 PM
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well, shocks are a debate... generally the Koni's and Illumias are ofeten used and some prefer oen over the other...

Generally what I've heard.

GC coil overs
camber caster plates up front
the big Mazdacomp 1" 1/8" front sway bar
chuck the rear into the woods somewhere
illuminas (or whatnot)
for a streetable setup? (350#f/ ~150-200# rear)
many running racecars run higher (like #500f/350# rear)
hoosier A3S03's 225/45-13 on either 13x8 or 13x9" wheels
Aluminum flywheel
full tri-link rear suspension
some sorta high diff gears, (4.88/5.12 depending)
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Old 04-29-03, 07:15 PM
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What CLASS are you going to run.

I have no opinions to offer on 1st gens, but I can tell you right off the bat, asking this question is pointless for all involved without knowing what class you plan to run in, as well as how much money you can spend. Speed = Money, how fast can you afford to go?
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Old 04-30-03, 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by Silkworm
What CLASS are you going to run.

I have no opinions to offer on 1st gens, but I can tell you right off the bat, asking this question is pointless for all involved without knowing what class you plan to run in, as well as how much money you can spend. Speed = Money, how fast can you afford to go?
Well, that is usually the case in any hobby.

Class isn't too important to me. But I'm thinking IT7 which will put me in CSP for autoxing. Of course there is also SM2. I'd like to spend a max of about $2,000 maybe $3,000. It al depends on how much I can get for my truck.

Anyone want to buy a '92 B2600?

I'll take whatever money I get from it and put it towards the RX-7. I'm noticing most parts are in the $200 to $300 dollar range. I can sneak those past the wife without her seeing.

So, I guess it boils down to where the "sweet spot" is. If i spend a few hundred and keep it stock but it's slow, or a thousand and it's fast, or a few thousand and it's wicked fast; I'll go for wicked. But if it going to cost several thousand, I'll stick with fast.
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Old 04-30-03, 09:54 AM
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well, the setup for 1st gens without doing anything major would be CSP.. if you want to gut the intereior, cage, and port the crap outts the motor, then you could move up to the prepared classes, but most of the suspecsion stays the same....

but most certainly check the specific rules for competition in your area and sanctioning body before you actually plop down $$ on anything *I* have said for sure...

you wnat to be compeditive in SM2? That's the sky is the limit turbo class... hope you've got a big budget
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Old 04-30-03, 11:10 AM
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CSP is prepared. C Stock Prepared. From what I've seen and heard CSP=IT7. The cars I've seen were stripped.

And who said anything about being competive? I want to go fast. If you are faster, so be it. Turbo sound expensive though. Now if the suspension and everythingelse can be done with a tubro for $3k fine. Right now everything is stock including the original apex seals for all I know.
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Old 04-30-03, 12:25 PM
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Ok, CSP is C Street Prepared. ITA (and thereby IT7 cars since they are just running an ITA prepped car in a separate class) road race cars, which are legally allowed to run in CSP. However, you're also stuck with ITA rules, 14x7 wheels max, you can't run bigger rubber. You must have a roll cage that conforms to the SCCA GCR (and I'd bet you'd also have to HAVE a copy of the GCR with you), with all required safety equipment for ITA (harnesses, electrical cutoff switch, fire extinguisher). Finally, you'd have to meet the weight minimums for ITA to be legal, which, at least for an ITS car, are pretty easy to break doing all of the legal work to the car (my ITS car, without me, weighs 2450.. If I shrink past 220lbs (which will be a great great day), I'll have to start adding ballast to the car.

And in the end, a CSP car has pretty much the same allowed mods suspension wise that my IT car has. The only benefits that I'm aware of is the ability to run the welded roll cage.

What's the point of going auto-xing if you're not going to compete?

You want to go fast? Go take your bone stock car, and go auto-x every event this year at your local auto-x weekends. Learn how your car handles, learn how to make it do the best you can with what you've got, before going out and spending a ton of cash trying to improve. Spend that energy and time learning how to improve your skills before you try to improve the car. Spend that cash on driving schools, open track days, and auto-x schools. Guaranteed, you'll have a different attitude about this before you're done.

PaulC
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Old 04-30-03, 03:50 PM
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Ok, time to set the record straight. I'm new to RX-7's, I don't know anything how the racing classes, and I'm new to the modded classes.

I am not new to autox. I am consistantly within .5 of a guy that drives the same Sentra Spec V I have only he weighs 50 lbs less than I do. His car is probably 20 -30 lbs lighter than mine (options). He is using Vico racers, I'm using Azenis. He is using Brembo brakes and the Motol xmission fluid, I'm using oem. We both started autoxing in June.

I've gone to two driving schools at CMP and I'm going to a third one on May 17th & 18th. I still have much to learn but I'm not a rookie.

Now for the classes. I'm going to keep the car on 13"tires or maybe 14" (for better tire selection). Why would I want to go any bigger? The center of gravity is going to get moved higher with each wheel increase.

The roll cage will only help stiffen the car. That has to be a good thing. The GCR is only $15. The electrical kill switch can't be too difficult and the fire extinguisher will only add 5 lbs. As the first gen is fairly light the roll cage should help there too.

For autox, I don't have to compete against you to compete. I can compete against myself and my last time.

CSP jst sounded like the best bang for the buck. The car can be road raced or Solo I when I have the time and money and it fits neatly into CSP for the autoxes.

I will also race it in stock form for awhile until I get use to rear wheel drive again. The mods that I'm looking at will more than likely take a full year to complete.
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Old 04-30-03, 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by BrewerBob
For autox, I don't have to compete against you to compete. I can compete against myself and my last time.
That's a great attitude to have. But then what do you need all these go fast parts for? You can compete against yourself without all that extra stuff, which is just going to add complexity to your setup, added concerns and cost, and for what? To say you went fast? You're not going to be able to say "I won my class yesterday".. "I was .02 seconds behind John, he was blazing out there.. "

Look, you can go out and spend tons of money on the car, not have any idea why the combination works/doesn't work. Go ahead. It's your car, it's your money. I'm just recommending that you work up to it, not jump in all at once, dump tons of cash into your car, and spend time and frustration fighting the car trying to understand why the combo the RX-7 club guys said isn't working for you.

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Old 04-30-03, 04:29 PM
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all good advice...

He just asked what the "ideal" setup was... I was just attempting to answer his questions to the best of my knowledge...

the best money spent? definately a driver school....
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Old 04-30-03, 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by BrewerBob
I am consistantly within .5 of a guy that drives the same Sentra Spec V I have only he weighs 50 lbs less than I do. His car is probably 20 -30 lbs lighter than mine (options). He is using Vico racers, I'm using Azenis. He is using Brembo brakes and the Motol xmission fluid, I'm using oem. We both started autoxing in June..
This is not to meant to sound offensive in any way, but what makes you think he is any good either?

Originally posted by BrewerBob
For autox, I don't have to compete against you to compete. I can compete against myself and my last time.
Exactly. That's why people are telling you to save your money, you can get just as much fulfillment from a stock car. Unless you really want to go IT racing (and if you just started autoxing that's probably not soon) don't bother building a CSP car. Silkworm and myself are by no means "talking down" to you, but unless you really just like the gadget factor don't bother yourself with a CSP car. Run a stock car for a while until you have more experience.

At the very least if you do decide to spend money on the car later I guarantee you will make better decisions than if you do it now.
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Old 04-30-03, 08:52 PM
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fyi.... biggest wheel you can run in ITA or IT7 is 13"x7" (maybe 6)
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Old 04-30-03, 09:36 PM
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DOH

Thanks for the correction Scott, forgot the 1st gen had 13s..

PaulC
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Old 05-01-03, 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by Silkworm
That's a great attitude to have. But then what do you need all these go fast parts for?
For pucker factor. I could drive a 3 cyclinder Metro. And I could drive it faster than you and win the class everytime but it would still be a Metro at walking speeds! Where's the fun in that?

I already have a 1st thru 3rd trophies. I'm not a trophy collector. I'm not a race car driver. This is a hobby. If a hobby isn't fun then it's work. I already have a job, I don't need another one. I autocross because I like it. If I happen to kick your butt in the process then that's just icing on the cake but it isn't required for me to have fun.

Originally posted by Silkworm
Look, you can go out and spend tons of money on the car, not have any idea why the combination works/doesn't work. Go ahead. It's your car, it's your money. I'm just recommending that you work up to it, not jump in all at once, dump tons of cash into your car, and spend time and frustration fighting the car trying to understand why the combo the RX-7 club guys said isn't working for you. PaulC
:

I thank you for the advice. And I don't want you to think I'm some rich pretty boy "My car is fast" type. Anything I do to the car will be over time and the nut behind the wheel is ALWAYS the weakest link in ANY car. I don't know for sure but I'll bet money Shoemocker (sp) doesn't sit on his *** and eat doughnuts while everyone else is testing and running practice laps.

Originally posted by rx7gslse
He just asked what the "ideal" setup was... I was just attempting to answer his questions to the best of my knowledge...

As RX7gsle stated, I'm looking for the "best" setup for the car. I know this is somewhat subjective to driving style so there is no right answer but there should be right setup that can be tweaked. I already know what I can do and what I can't do as a driver. I'm working on those as well. But I don't want to spend $200 on x when it will be useless when I buy a $300 y.

I also want to know the how's and why's this setup is better than that setup.

Originally posted by DamonB
This is not to meant to sound offensive in any way, but what makes you think he is any good either?
No one is a perfect driver but we are both decent. The guys who have been autoxing for 10+ years will even say so. I track my times 3 different ways. I track against Don (the other Spec V), against FTD and against Jon. The margins are decreasing.

Jon, who I respect as a driver who knows what he is doing, has been autoxing for 10 years and was karting for 6 yrs before that. And before you ask, how many of you have driven 12hrs of Sebring, an LMP car, or had an IRL team even consider you as a driver? If the kid was born with money, you'd have seen his name. As it is, it's only a matter of time until he gets enough sponsorship money. Keep an eye out for Jon Krolewicz.

Anyway, I'm not in his league yet but the deltas as a percentage have been coming down when compared to him. He is usually 3 to 4 seconds faster on a 45 course, driving a "stock" CRX. He's placed 17th and 11th in that car at nationals.

Last edited by BrewerBob; 05-01-03 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 05-02-03, 07:35 AM
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try this angle

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, you will improve handling, braking and acceleration by reducing the weight of your car, remember every pound is fighting against your engine. A lighter car responds quicker, has less understeer, and if you want to you can radically alter (lower) your center of gravity.

Relocating weight can also help such as moving your battery into a lower and more central position ie: behind the seats on the floor.

Putting your car on a diet is the least expensive one you can make. Do not settle on springs and dampers until you have taken the excess weight off the car or they will behave differently after the diet.
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Old 05-17-03, 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Speed Raycer
fyi.... biggest wheel you can run in ITA or IT7 is 13"x7" (maybe 6)
I was just about to run to my 2003 GCR! Its 13x7 BTW.
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Old 06-05-03, 11:34 PM
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Ok, guys advice time again.

I reread all of your opinions. I finally got around to putting a tag on the car and drove it to work (yesterday now that it's past midnight).

This car is in deseperate need of springs and shocks. Even small bumps cause the tires to rub. At 65 to 70 mph the nose starts wanting to "float". It's lifting and looking for a new direction to go in.

I can get the rear end to come around even at very low speeds (25-30 mph). This can't be normal. The handling is awful.

So, here's what I'm looking at....

1. Eibach springs and adjustable perches. 350lbs front and 175 rear.

2. Tokico "Illumina 5" since they can be adjusted without compressing like the Koni's.

3. And new bushings.

This all adds up to just over $800 from Ground Control. I'm going to skip the camber plates and front sway bar for now. With those included the total would be just under $1200.

I've heard a lot of good things about Ground Control but aren't they just reselling someone else's parts? Are there cheaper resellers for the same parts?

Is skipping the sway bar and camber plates a mistake? I'm going to get them later just now right now. They can be added after the rest of the stuff right?
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Old 06-06-03, 03:15 PM
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you're building a race car right? you shoud look into MAzdaComp...

K-STG1-85-RX7
C SUSPENSION KIT, STAGE 1 - NLA 1 1ST GEN RX-7 ALL 1979-85 $1,098.00

Notes: IT SUSPENSION KIT. Includes: Coil Over Strut Hardware Kit (0000-04-7405-DP), Camber/Caster kit (0000-04-7204-DP), Tokico Illumina Adjustable front strut cartridges (0000-04-7217-TK), Rear Adjustable shocks (0000-04-7218-tk), 2 Eibach ERS 8' front springs (350lbs 0000-04-9350-08), Rear Spring Kit (175lbs 0000-04-7101-75), Adjustable Front Sway Bar (0000-04-7325-GC) Front Strut Tower Bar (0000-04-7511) Springs may be substituted for other spring rates. No other substitutions.
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Old 06-06-03, 09:51 PM
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That's about $100 cheaper but I don't see bushings in your list. They were only $45 for front & rear though so it's still $50 cheaper.

Thanx, I'll be sure to check it out.


But I also see you have Racing Beat on your '84.

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Old 06-07-03, 11:52 AM
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RB exhaust or which? I got all my suspension stuff from ground control...

Wouldn't have had it any other way... I love the setup (just wished the exhaust was lighter...)
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Old 06-09-03, 10:14 AM
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I don't see any suspension on the MazdaComp.com site. It's all engine stuff.
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