We all know rotary's suffer from heat. Possible option.
10-02-11, 05:41 PM
#1
We all know rotary's suffer from heat. Possible option.
My friends went through a few engines in a few years racing. The hard thing on these rotarys was the heat. Burned mufflers, turbo's and just generally destroys everything within 2 feet of the engine! Not to mention the current price on parts.
They went with a V8 and after a 1 hour race I can touch just about anything in the engine bay bare hand. Unbelievable and just insane torque and power and so quiet. And it costs less then my 13B engine!
Anyhow they have this.
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7828-ste...exchanger.aspx
This is a built in heat exhanger in the rad. Temps never moved. Oil and coolant never moved. I was shocked. My $500 fluidyne oil cooler, FLuidyne rad and ducting I can overheat (Well insane high oil temps) my car running 15psi in two laps! This howe cooler may work for the rotary.
O and another rant. HTF can the complete dry sump system on this V8 FD cost less then just the front cover of the rotary dry sump. If I didn't have some much invested in my engine I would jump ship in an instant and I have owned and lived rotary for 20 years.... Its not like I can sell my engine either. Brand new sitting on an engine stand. To bad......
They went with a V8 and after a 1 hour race I can touch just about anything in the engine bay bare hand. Unbelievable and just insane torque and power and so quiet. And it costs less then my 13B engine!
Anyhow they have this.
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7828-ste...exchanger.aspx
This is a built in heat exhanger in the rad. Temps never moved. Oil and coolant never moved. I was shocked. My $500 fluidyne oil cooler, FLuidyne rad and ducting I can overheat (Well insane high oil temps) my car running 15psi in two laps! This howe cooler may work for the rotary.
O and another rant. HTF can the complete dry sump system on this V8 FD cost less then just the front cover of the rotary dry sump. If I didn't have some much invested in my engine I would jump ship in an instant and I have owned and lived rotary for 20 years.... Its not like I can sell my engine either. Brand new sitting on an engine stand. To bad......
10-02-11, 06:35 PM
#3
It sure does look promising. I am thinking about going this route when I put the PS2000 and the race engine into my 1989.
(My 10th AE is going back to completely stock)
Does your car suffer from heat issues? My Stock boost/stock motor 1989 runs all day and all appears fine. Mind you I have nothing to show temps other then the stock gauge
Are you doing the Sigma Time Attack Series next year too? I think they may have some added tracks!
(My 10th AE is going back to completely stock)
Does your car suffer from heat issues? My Stock boost/stock motor 1989 runs all day and all appears fine. Mind you I have nothing to show temps other then the stock gauge
Are you doing the Sigma Time Attack Series next year too? I think they may have some added tracks!
10-02-11, 08:13 PM
#4
Kenspec
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Hey Ian, no so far shes been solid. No temp issues but this is further insurance I guess. Maybe ill be generating more heat next year ;p. I will Sigma again, I have been so happy with the series and organizers....not so much the 2.5 hr drive up to ddt tho lol. If they add shannonville then im out lol. Maybe TMP?
10-02-11, 08:57 PM
#5
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I run the turbo FC on e-85 and a gigantic rad and have no heat issues really. Also, I have a single oil/air cooler rather than two as well.
The issue with the water/oil heat exchanger is that if you are already running hot, it fixes nothing. Larger rads, improved ducting and airflow, etc. are the keys to good cooling.
The issue with the water/oil heat exchanger is that if you are already running hot, it fixes nothing. Larger rads, improved ducting and airflow, etc. are the keys to good cooling.
10-02-11, 09:10 PM
#6
We had a similar one on an E Prod NA that made about 240hp. It came off an ARCA roundy round car and had done well on that car, not so much on the rotary. We pulled it off and added a second stock cooler plumbed parallel and all is fine on the car now.
10-03-11, 08:27 AM
#7
I run the turbo FC on e-85 and a gigantic rad and have no heat issues really. Also, I have a single oil/air cooler rather than two as well.
The issue with the water/oil heat exchanger is that if you are already running hot, it fixes nothing. Larger rads, improved ducting and airflow, etc. are the keys to good cooling.
The issue with the water/oil heat exchanger is that if you are already running hot, it fixes nothing. Larger rads, improved ducting and airflow, etc. are the keys to good cooling.
Plus the heat exchanger does just that... exchanges heat. If your coolant is hotter than your oil, now your coolant will be heating up your oil instead of cooling it or vice versa.
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10-04-11, 07:53 AM
#9
Rotary Freak
Ian, I run a Chevy stock car rad in mine and I don't have water heat issues now, not ever. I think the hottest water temps I have seen was at Shannonville this past summer, thrashing around with Al for 10 laps. I was buzzing the car to over 9,000 rpm and cavitating the h3ll out of it. Water temps just got to just over 215 degrees. Air temps were 97 degrees.
At Mosport, on long pulls up Andretti, drafting somebody, I can see 210, but free lapping with clear air flow I barely clear 190 degrees.
Back to the use of LS1's, Ford Motorsport small blocks, etc...., I really like the idea for actual racing purposes. Sure the rotary can make power and pull off some extraordinary lap times, but if you get balked at any time around the track it can take a couple of corners to get back up to speed. Just once I would like to be able to pull a Honda Civic out of 5B after getting balked in 5A. Torque allows you to correct for mistakes. Horsepower allows you to pass people going in to Turn 8 at Mosport. Last race I did most of my passing into and throught Turn 8.
Sorry for the whole Mosport and Ontario related discussion, Ian will understand LOL.
Eric
At Mosport, on long pulls up Andretti, drafting somebody, I can see 210, but free lapping with clear air flow I barely clear 190 degrees.
Back to the use of LS1's, Ford Motorsport small blocks, etc...., I really like the idea for actual racing purposes. Sure the rotary can make power and pull off some extraordinary lap times, but if you get balked at any time around the track it can take a couple of corners to get back up to speed. Just once I would like to be able to pull a Honda Civic out of 5B after getting balked in 5A. Torque allows you to correct for mistakes. Horsepower allows you to pass people going in to Turn 8 at Mosport. Last race I did most of my passing into and throught Turn 8.
Sorry for the whole Mosport and Ontario related discussion, Ian will understand LOL.
Eric
10-04-11, 08:09 AM
#10
I'm running an AFCO dual pass rad, good ducting and 2 giant Fluidyne oil coolers.
Eric and Al were the guys that first saw my car at shannonville this year and commented on my tiny oil coolers. Boy were they right, I had overheating issues all day.
My coolant system holds about 10-11L of coolant. I'm running distilled water mixed with water wetter. My oil system is 8L capacity. My oil coolers are 15"x9"x3", I have one on either side of the front of the car. Everything is ducted really really well.
Only running 6psi of boost right now, but my oil temps are 70C and water temps bounce between 85-90C.
Big exchagers and REALLY GOOD ducting is important on these cars.
Andrew.
Eric and Al were the guys that first saw my car at shannonville this year and commented on my tiny oil coolers. Boy were they right, I had overheating issues all day.
My coolant system holds about 10-11L of coolant. I'm running distilled water mixed with water wetter. My oil system is 8L capacity. My oil coolers are 15"x9"x3", I have one on either side of the front of the car. Everything is ducted really really well.
Only running 6psi of boost right now, but my oil temps are 70C and water temps bounce between 85-90C.
Big exchagers and REALLY GOOD ducting is important on these cars.
Andrew.
10-04-11, 05:10 PM
#11
Ian, I run a Chevy stock car rad in mine and I don't have water heat issues now, not ever. I think the hottest water temps I have seen was at Shannonville this past summer, thrashing around with Al for 10 laps. I was buzzing the car to over 9,000 rpm and cavitating the h3ll out of it. Water temps just got to just over 215 degrees. Air temps were 97 degrees.
At Mosport, on long pulls up Andretti, drafting somebody, I can see 210, but free lapping with clear air flow I barely clear 190 degrees.
Back to the use of LS1's, Ford Motorsport small blocks, etc...., I really like the idea for actual racing purposes. Sure the rotary can make power and pull off some extraordinary lap times, but if you get balked at any time around the track it can take a couple of corners to get back up to speed. Just once I would like to be able to pull a Honda Civic out of 5B after getting balked in 5A. Torque allows you to correct for mistakes. Horsepower allows you to pass people going in to Turn 8 at Mosport. Last race I did most of my passing into and throught Turn 8.
Sorry for the whole Mosport and Ontario related discussion, Ian will understand LOL.
Eric
At Mosport, on long pulls up Andretti, drafting somebody, I can see 210, but free lapping with clear air flow I barely clear 190 degrees.
Back to the use of LS1's, Ford Motorsport small blocks, etc...., I really like the idea for actual racing purposes. Sure the rotary can make power and pull off some extraordinary lap times, but if you get balked at any time around the track it can take a couple of corners to get back up to speed. Just once I would like to be able to pull a Honda Civic out of 5B after getting balked in 5A. Torque allows you to correct for mistakes. Horsepower allows you to pass people going in to Turn 8 at Mosport. Last race I did most of my passing into and throught Turn 8.
Sorry for the whole Mosport and Ontario related discussion, Ian will understand LOL.
Eric
There may be a small difference in the fact I run a turbo
I am not sure if you ever saw my 1988 400rwhp car. IT still does overheat on high boost settings. Before on the stock oil cooler I would peg my oil temp gauge past 250 all the time. With the fluidyne oil cooler its better but I will have to do better ducting. I only have separate ducting for the oil cooler. I was also entertaining a reverse hood/intercooler etc. My 1989 doesn't seem to overheat at all on the track. (It did overheat on the DDT when the coolant hose was collapsing for some unknown reason. I just put in a new rad and ubber expensive mazda thermostat.Truth be told if I had the money I would be going V8. Unless you want to buy my race engine. Brand new sitting on an engine stand
P.S I would **** if I saw 98C air temps.
10-04-11, 05:11 PM
#12
I'm running an AFCO dual pass rad, good ducting and 2 giant Fluidyne oil coolers.
Eric and Al were the guys that first saw my car at shannonville this year and commented on my tiny oil coolers. Boy were they right, I had overheating issues all day.
My coolant system holds about 10-11L of coolant. I'm running distilled water mixed with water wetter. My oil system is 8L capacity. My oil coolers are 15"x9"x3", I have one on either side of the front of the car. Everything is ducted really really well.
Only running 6psi of boost right now, but my oil temps are 70C and water temps bounce between 85-90C.
Big exchagers and REALLY GOOD ducting is important on these cars.
Andrew.
Eric and Al were the guys that first saw my car at shannonville this year and commented on my tiny oil coolers. Boy were they right, I had overheating issues all day.
My coolant system holds about 10-11L of coolant. I'm running distilled water mixed with water wetter. My oil system is 8L capacity. My oil coolers are 15"x9"x3", I have one on either side of the front of the car. Everything is ducted really really well.
Only running 6psi of boost right now, but my oil temps are 70C and water temps bounce between 85-90C.
Big exchagers and REALLY GOOD ducting is important on these cars.
Andrew.
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