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Track tires for FD? Looking for latest options

Old 12-21-07, 01:22 PM
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Track tires for FD? Looking for latest options

Hello all,

I've run a season on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. Although there is plenty of tread left, the grip levels have come down so it's time to switch. While the PSCups are a great compromise tire (can be street driven, do okay in the wet, etc.) they give up a lot of grip to the pure racing tire. Since I'm starting to trailer my car to the track, I can afford to get a bit more aggressive.

I went to TireRrack and it seems like the options (in the 285/30/18 that I run) are:

1) Hoosier R6
2) Kumho V710
3) BFG G-force R1

I think I have a good idea of how these tires perform. My question is: what other tires have been track-proven for the FD in terms of fittment, performance, and durability? I'm not looking to set lap records--I'd like a tyre that has a reasonable level of control and durability even if I'm giving up a second or two.

So--your thoughts and experiences are welcome,

-ch
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Old 12-21-07, 03:33 PM
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For instance: has anyone tried any of the slick tires from Pirelli (285/645-18) or Michelin (24/64/18)? Both are about $350-$400 per tire and come in several compounds...

-ch
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Old 12-21-07, 06:02 PM
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fwiw, You may want to review what the people at bimmerforums have said about some track tires. Lots of track people there and they often have good quality threads on this subject.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...play.php?f=128
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Old 12-22-07, 03:54 AM
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All good tires. However, I hope you're aware that the Hoosier R6 may last only one weekend. Also, the Kumho V710 are a better autocross/time trial tire as they work well cold but get a bit greasy when really hot.

I have not tried the new BFGoodrich tires but I hear they're good.

If you're just doing track days I'd highly recommend staying with something like what you already have as you'll get a lot more tire life.

The only full race slicks I've used are yokohama and goodyear. Tires like these and the pirelli / michelin race tires you mention work great... for a limited number of heat cycles.... things get VERY expensive VERY fast.

Unless you're doing serious competition I HIGHLY recommend staying with an R compound tire with decent service life - like your pilot sport cups or similar tires.
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Old 12-22-07, 07:03 AM
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toyo RA1 or R888 is a better track tire than pirelli corsa. The Toyo's are probably comparable to Michelin Pilot Sport Cups although I see a lot more people on the toyo's than the pirelli's so that might say something. Nitto NT01 probably just as good.

I autocross more so I'm sticking with the v710. Love that tire. I used it on HPDE and it was good but I only stayed out for like 15 minutes per session.
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Old 12-22-07, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hyperion View Post
Hello all,

I've run a season on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. Although there is plenty of tread left, the grip levels have come down so it's time to switch. While the PSCups are a great compromise tire (can be street driven, do okay in the wet, etc.) they give up a lot of grip to the pure racing tire. Since I'm starting to trailer my car to the track, I can afford to get a bit more aggressive.

I went to TireRrack and it seems like the options (in the 285/30/18 that I run) are:

1) Hoosier R6
2) Kumho V710
3) BFG G-force R1

I think I have a good idea of how these tires perform. My question is: what other tires have been track-proven for the FD in terms of fittment, performance, and durability? I'm not looking to set lap records--I'd like a tyre that has a reasonable level of control and durability even if I'm giving up a second or two.

So--your thoughts and experiences are welcome,

-ch
I have tested 3 types of tires on the FD. Bridgestone RE540(replaced by RE050 i think), Toyo R888 and Yokohama A048R.

And i would say the best buy is the Yokohama tire. They have excelent grip, and will last along time. I have driven mine almost 10 000 miles. With alot of track driving. And i still have alot of thread left in them. And they work verry good on a wet track. Ofc it's nothing like a pure rain tire but.

But for the best racing tire i would say buy the Hoosiers, but they don't work in the rain at all.

The Bridgestone tires are similar to the Yokohama tire in grip but will get faster worn out.

And the Toyo has less grip and will also last shorter then the Yokohama and Bridgestone Tire.

JT
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Old 12-22-07, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hyperion
For instance: has anyone tried any of the slick tires from Pirelli (285/645-18) or Michelin (24/64/18)? Both are about $350-$400 per tire and come in several compounds...
You'll find you have to run a lot more camber than is available from the standard subframes - in the 5 or 6 degree range, at least that is the experience here, with the Pirellis needing a bit more than the Michelins. If you try to run at the limits of standard camber, you'll destroy them real quick.
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Old 12-22-07, 03:19 PM
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Get the BFG R1, you'll be happy.
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Old 12-22-07, 04:59 PM
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I'm just wondering what class your racing in? To me it doesn't make sense to purchase a set of $1600 tires if your not racing for championship points or the like. That being said, you can do what ever makes you happy, and if kicking everyone's *** in HPDE make you happy then thats awesome.

I'm still doing HPDE's so Falken RT-615's it is for me......lol
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Old 12-22-07, 05:24 PM
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+1,

is this for HPDE, Time Attack, Regional or National events?
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Old 12-22-07, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by billyboy View Post
You'll find you have to run a lot more camber than is available from the standard subframes - in the 5 or 6 degree range, at least that is the experience here, with the Pirellis needing a bit more than the Michelins. If you try to run at the limits of standard camber, you'll destroy them real quick.
Billyboy, this is good feedback. I've had good success with the PSCups running at -1.5 on the front and -1.0 in the rear. If I need to go greater than about -2 to get them to work well, then maybe I need to stick with the DOT-R tires.

The idea being that it doesn't sound like it's possible to run the full slicks on a setup that could ever be driven on the street...

My issue with the PSCups is they tend to get greasy after about 5-7 laps. I'd like a tire that is more consistent when it gets up to temperature. The BMW guys seem to really like the new BFG R1s so perhaps I'll try those. (Stuntman, thanks for the vote of confidence for those.) But it's really tempting when you can get a set of Yoko, Pirelli, or Michelin scrubs for about $100 a tire. There's still probably 10-20 heat cycles left in them before they are really bad.

To the question, I'm just running my car for fun. I'm trailering now so I don't need a tire that's streetable like the PSCups, so I wanted to investigate something a little more aggressive. I'm not looking to set track records, but I would like to drive longer, more consistent stints to work on my own consistency. Having tires go off in 15 minutes is a bummer.

Thanks for all the great comments and advice.

-ch
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Old 12-22-07, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hyperion View Post
Billyboy, this is good feedback. I've had good success with the PSCups running at -1.5 on the front and -1.0 in the rear. If I need to go greater than about -2 to get them to work well, then maybe I need to stick with the DOT-R tires.

The idea being that it doesn't sound like it's possible to run the full slicks on a setup that could ever be driven on the street...

My issue with the PSCups is they tend to get greasy after about 5-7 laps. I'd like a tire that is more consistent when it gets up to temperature. The BMW guys seem to really like the new BFG R1s so perhaps I'll try those. (Stuntman, thanks for the vote of confidence for those.) But it's really tempting when you can get a set of Yoko, Pirelli, or Michelin scrubs for about $100 a tire. There's still probably 10-20 heat cycles left in them before they are really bad.

To the question, I'm just running my car for fun. I'm trailering now so I don't need a tire that's streetable like the PSCups, so I wanted to investigate something a little more aggressive. I'm not looking to set track records, but I would like to drive longer, more consistent stints to work on my own consistency. Having tires go off in 15 minutes is a bummer.

Thanks for all the great comments and advice.

-ch
Yes the PSC do tend to get greasy quickly. The RA1 and R888 are more consistent and hold their grip until they cord. The peak level of performance won't be too much higher than PSC, but they are a lot cheaper than the BFG R1, so you still may want to try a set of RA1s or R888s. Plus the RA1s are great rain tires when they have full tread depth, even when shaved they take damp tracks and standing water remarkably well compared to other 'slicks'.

But for all out performance, the R1 is quicker (similarly to the R6) but lasts longer than the R6 and is more consistent. So my vote would be RA1 or R888, and if price isn't that big of a deal then the R1.
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Old 12-23-07, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hyperion View Post
I'm not looking to set track records, but I would like to drive longer, more consistent stints to work on my own consistency. Having tires go off in 15 minutes is a bummer.
I wish I had firsthand experience, but I've done a lot of reading on track tires and the RA-1 / R888 are what everyone talks about for this. It's the huge number of heat cycles they can take that make them the incredibly durable and consistent value that they are.

Dave
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Old 12-24-07, 12:21 AM
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I've been running on some leftover Hoosier R4's I got cheap. There's definately no problem with them going off during a run, but they aren't the same, even after the first day. My understanding is that the R6's should be of similar grip, but last longer. I'm aldso going to look into tires for street car-based series like Koni challenge.
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Old 12-24-07, 12:42 AM
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Thanks again for the comments, this is great stuff. I did a bit of research on the RA1/R888 and the BFG R1. At least according to their literature, the Toyo tires like more negative camber than the R1s. One of the nice things about the PSCups is that they work very well with low camber settings--I get very nice temp distribution at under -2 degrees. It would be nice to keep my alignment streetable, so maybe the R1s are the way to go.

Also, I was surprised to see the prices for the R888s at around $340 in the 285/30/18 size. That's a lot more than the $284 at tirerack for the R1s...

-ch

Last edited by hyperion; 12-24-07 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 12-24-07, 06:52 AM
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That's interesting about the pricing - at smaller sizes (say, 225/50/15) the RA1/R888's are definitely cheaper: ~$150 at racetire.com versus ~$200 for the BFGs at tirerack.com.

-b
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Old 12-24-07, 12:53 PM
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a cheaper alternative dual purpose R compound sounds like hankook Z211:

http://www.frisbyracetire.com/z211sale.html

285/30-18 -- $173.00
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Old 12-26-07, 10:38 AM
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I agree w/ Dan Unk, Falken R615, reasonable performance and price.
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