Mr. Stock

Well, I would like to spend 2003 doing some "reconnaisance" track events of all the tracks that are in the California area so that when I do participate in the OTC, I won't come in DFL since I don't have natural talent like Chronos

Chronos

I don't think that anyone on this thread is ganging up on me...I think you're all pretty good guys as far as I can tell and I respect your opinions and views (and abilities). As for my "natural talent" There's obviously no way (or reason) to explain or prove it to you people other than to start winning races, and even then, who really cares except for me?. The only reason I innitially brought it up was because I've had a lot of bad experiences with the educational system, and it would be nice learn at my own pace for once...

Does anyone have any info on those Diasios? r0t0rhead???

SleepR1

Chronos,

No, I meant no personal attacks against, "young Luke" (the force is strong with this lad )

You have no idea how fast the Diasio D962 Yamaha-powered race car is do you ? At Putnam Park the 150hp 1200-lb Diasio D962 laps at 1:12. My fastest ever was 1:20 with Hoosier R3S03.

Now Chris Diasio has put 100-more horsey in a 1200-lb car via a 12A normally aspirated race rotary motor, expertly built by Rotorsports Racing!

Do the division. We went from 8 lbs-per-hp (Yamaha 1100-cc 2-stroke) to 4.8 lbs-per-hp (1200-cc twin rotor rotary). That's Ducati motorcycle power-to-weight ratio, "Young Luke"!

The ironic part is that you're talking about "learning" on a $55K full-bore SCCA C sports racer race car Quite amusing really

Wanna hear the sick part...Chris Diasio has plans for a 13B REW for the D962. Now we're talking 300 hp in a 1200-lb car. Our HP-to-WT is now 4 lbs/hp. That's downright f*cking scary, if you ask me!

SleepR1

Chronos, you need to sign up for a touring car club event. Get an instructor, and have it at it on the track. You don't need a 500-hp FD either. A bonestock FD will be MORE THAN ample to learn on.

Once the instructor signs you off, you can experiment with your own lines. This is good and bad. Good because you get to face-plant by yourself without risking an instructor's life. Bad because you might learn bad habits, and have to UNLEARN them when you find out you're actually slower with the driving style you've developed. Go ahead...ask me how I know this...

Chronos

heheh, thx for the advice SleepR1, If you read at my previous posts, I never planned to race with the 500hp FD until I developed my racing skills considerably...I planned on starting out with the race engine, stripped chasis, and rollbar with stock turbos and stock boost and go from there as I need more power or whatever.

Those Diasios seem CRAZY! what does the frame look like? How much are they? Can I test them out at a track somewhere? Btw, how much is a touring car club event with instructor? A one on one instructor sounds perfect...

Mr. Stock

It depends on whom you get as an instructor.

My experience is that The quality of the instruction and the level of experience of the instructors vary quite a bit.

As a matter of fact, you may find this type of learning more stifling than going to a race school. At a race school, you will learn the "proper" theory and technique and then you can go practice on your own under the watchful supervision of an instructor.

DamonB

***The Mr. Stock race instruction experience***

"Alright brake a little now."
"You mean right now?"
"Yes, brake now. Firmly."
"I wanted to learn deep trail braking today."
"Not today and not with me. Slow the car."
"We ain't even there yet."
"Ain't where?"
"The point of maximum non-return adhesion."
"WHA?? What are you doing? SLOW THE CAR!!"
"I am slowing the car, just gently at first into that off camber corner."
For the Love of God! Stop! Stop the car! Wahhhhhh! Wahhhhh! Mommy!
"You're ruining my concentration. Please refrain from outbursts that may startle the driver."

:p

SleepR1

I resent you taping my instructing conversations with my students, DamonB

DamonB

I have not made any scream, just maybe white in the face a few times

During Evo Phase II my instructor wanted me to push the car harder. I explained that I was very familier with this sight and anything more would be "dirty" as that's all the grip I felt there was. He said my car control skills were good and I shouldn't worry about losing the car, so show me dirty. The course had an enormous 45 mph sweeper at one end and I was determined to drift the car all the way around it since Rob wanted to see dirty Lined it up into the sweeper and gave it a big boot full of throttle to bring the tail out. The first third of the turn was great until I skittered over some cracked pavement that upset the rear. Now I am busy with the steering wheel going this way and that in big arcs like those WRC guys do. Get it settled down and immediately go back to the power for the last portion and the car starts moving around again.

I wish I had an in car camera because as I am turning and focused on the apex the car is fishtailing everywhere and my head is on a swivel trying to keep the apex in sight. Cone pans across windsheild to right, then back left, then back to the right...almost got it, back to the left. Rob is in my ear yelling "Let it go! Just let it go! Let is spin!" And I am thinking who does he think he is dealing with? I am determined to A) Not remove my foot from the floor and B) Not blow the exit. Rob wanted me to do this right? At some point I gather it back up, come out of the sweeper and through the rest of the course. I park and Rob removes his helmet to debrief my performance. I remember it mostly delivered with laughter and the assurance that I should not doubt my ability to recover the car (even though we both knew in competition I would have backed out and gathered it up rather than screaming around like a broken arrow). It was a fun day

Mr. Stock

That was really funny.


By the way, that did happen to me at Summit Point Raceway in Virginia.
I had a female instructor who was supposed to have had quite a bit of racing experience in Porsche club racing.
During the "instruction period", she told me several times that I should NOT stomp on the gas. I tried to explain to her that it was the second turbo kicking in but she wouldn't believe me.
Anyway, at one point, she thought that I was WAY too hot going into a turn and she grabs the dash board with both hands and screams "OHHHHHH, SHIIIIIIIT!!!!" but of course, I had every thing under control. I slow the car down and made the turn without even a hint of
being on the edge. She was quite embarassed after that and kept her mouth shut the rest of the lap.
Obviously, she underestimated the performance level of the car as well as my abilities but this illustrates the fact that some of the instructors at so called "driver ed" race events are not that good.

SleepR1

What's good about having the sh*t scared out of you? Your instructor doesn't know you? She has no clue what you have under your hood, nor what's underneath your helmet. You're describing perhaps your first full flying lap with her?

There's a REASON why pro drivers/instructors don't (like to) ride with students...IT'S DANGEROUS!

At the Porsche Experience (Road Atlanta), David Murray and his like, will NOT ride with any of the students. When asked why not, his response is, "they don't pay me enough"...

Everytime I get in the car with a student, I'm taking the risk of flying off of the track and getting my life snuffed out like a candle flame. And for what, so you don't have to pay $3500 to run a 3-day Skip Barber Racing School every weekend, and so I can have "free" tracktime?

I instruct because I take great pride in watching a student develop during the weekend. It's rewarding to help drivers ed student go from not knowing the proper line, to signing him/her off for the weekend.

r0t0rhead

iTrader: (12)

Chronos-The Diasio 962 with the Yamaha engine turns lap times 6 secs. quicker than the race prepped ACR Vipers at Putnam. The 962R with 100 more hp and only 25lbs more weight, plus a better suspension will be considerably quicker- the car has capabilities that will challenge even the most experienced driver to fully extract. The chassis was re-designed by FABCAR to accomodate the engine and Hewland gearbox, they also performed the redesign of the rocker type suspension. FABCAR also recently built the new Porsche powered Daytona Prototypes for Brumos Racing. Dave Klym (FABCAR owner) KNOWS what he's doing.
To build a SERIOUS 500hp RX7 racer/track car will cost more than the $55K Diasio and you'll be hustling around a lot more weight plus you'll never get the benefits of lower cg, or midengine placement. If you're sold on the idea of an FD racer there are usually ones for sale in Sportscar Magazine with tubeframe chassis and 3-rotor 20G engines for less than $60K but they aren't very competitive in the class they run.
As for the funny instructor stories- I recall instucting an event back in the '80's where I had the duty of instructing the "hot rod kid from hell" in a supercharged Z28 at Charlotte Motor Speedway on the roadcourse. This course uses 90% of the highbanked oval track plus an infield section-similar to Daytona. The only thing he was interested in doing was telling his girlfriend how fast he could go on the back straight. Once he reached 160 approaching NASCAR turn 3 he would slam onto the brakes and turn the car into a spin towards the wall. The first time he did this I thought OK he's either intimidated or an idiot, but after a complete session where I kept encouraging him to just lift to turn in then apply throttle, and he continued to destroy his brakes, I realized what his goals were. I put him into the passenger seat of my RX7 and gradually increased speeds until he was convinced the banking would hold the car. Finally I had to put duct tape over the speedometer in his car and he started driving smoother and much faster.

SleepR1

Now that's a REAL instructor STORY! Thanks, r0t0rhead! Look forward to meeting you at Putnam Park when you and Chris Diasio test the D962R You think Chris will let me try the "R" for a couple of easy laps?

Mr. Stock

I had no intention of scaring her. I was in complete control of the car and there was certainly PLENTY more speed left. But she had no idea what a modified FD was capable of and probably thought that she knew all there was to know about the limits of the car and perhaps underesitmated my abililties. I was actually quite surprised to see and hear her scream "Oh, ****!" since I was in no way even close to the limit.

What this story illustrates, however, is that not all instructors are as good as they should be and some can be downright stifling.

SleepR1

All drivers ed students are encouraged to try other instructors.

As a DE (drivers education) organizer myself, I try to pair instructors/students based on car type. I have no way of knowing how well the instructor/student pairing will work, unless the students tell me--the chief instructor. It's the student's right to speak to the chief instructor and to ask for a different instructor.

There are many reasons an instructor/student relationship may not click.

You can help increase the quality of track instruction by completing feedback forms for your instructors. Each instructor receives this feedback from the cheif instructors.

The good instructors work on weaknesses, and address issues that come up often with his/her students.

The bad ones say, "screw the feedback", I'm instructing for free track time and a chance to show off how fast I am in my car...big difference!

On the flipside, instructors should attend instructor workshops to hone communication skills, and to help judge students' abilities, accurately.

Chronos

r0t0rhead

iTrader: (12)

Ditto- Sleepr1, My co-driver for SCCA enduros is just that type of driver/instructor. He consistently helps develop new talent by coaching them in Spec Racers. He's a former Pro Spec Racer champ,who also happens to drive part time in Trans-Am. His unselfish attitude evidently paid off when Paul Gentillozi selected him to drive his Jaguar in the final T/A race of '02 at VIR when Paul was injured. In the pro racing community (which is really small) attitude, and ability are equally important.
As far as the Diasio testing goes -I don't know when the initial testing will be yet and if they would be willing to let prospective customers drive it until its pronounced ready.
Regards,
Bryan

Chronos

The Diasio sounds like a minature 787B...what do you think the costs of maintanence would be on that bad boy???

r0t0rhead

iTrader: (12)

Here's a link to complete info and photos www.diasio.com/d962r.html
Maintenance on any race car is a bit high-but with huge brakes and a reliable engine with an estimated 100+ race hrs between refreshening the engine seals. Operating costs should be considerably lower than the competitions' usual 20-30 race hrs between rebuilds. Also you won't have to have a spare engine sitting in the trailer, freeing up more money for tires, testing, and more tires. Next to beer for the crew-tires will always be the racer's biggest expense item.

SleepR1

I see Chris finally decided to put REAL racing tires, Hoosier slicks, on the D962R, and dispensed with the Kumho V700 Victoracers

SleepR1

chronos, I think your FD track-only project has gone out of the window with the arrival of the D962R track car

SleepR1

I'm far from being a pro-caliber driver, but as an instructor my aim is to help drivers realize their cars' full potentials, and perhaps their own capabilities as drivers

Chronos

Ditto!

The only thing I'm wondering though is how can it perform with high HP machines like a porsche GT1...I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to get an extra 100hp or so out of that 13B, I just wonder how the chasis would take it???

Carl Byck

Chronos what exactly is your budget, say by spring? Carl

Chronos

I would definately NOT have enough money by spring...the job I'm looking at (I don't even have it yet...)pays around 4800/month and I have about 800/month financial responsibilities. If I get the job I'm taking a year off of school to accrew money and invest it into racing and/or moddifying my street car.

anyways, what did you have in mind?